Rules for THE ZONE

[dancer4k]

can anyone outline the optimum strategy for THE ZONE, including the prime time to double or triple up on the progression?

the confusion is paramount given that the rules of THE ZONE have changed several times since the original thread was started.

here is what I can decipher:

1) each session lasts no more than 12 "frames" - or progression games.

2) wait for any dozen not to hit for 9 consecutive spins to activate the given session.

3) when the session is active wait for any dozen not to hit for 4 consecutive spins, then commence betting on that dozen at spin 5, through to spin 8 using a progression of 1,1,2,3.

4) stop on win and carry on tracking for next frame.
4a) back tracking counts as part of the plan, so new qualifiers may be happening while you are betting.

5) when overlapping opportunities arise, there is a no bet unless one qualifying dozen has lost its two previous progressions. it may occur, then, at times that you are betting two individual progressions on two individual dozens.

6) having lost 3 progression games on the trot, bet heavily for a win on the fourth game to recoup full or part of previous losses.

7) win goals and stop losses seem to be vague.

sub-rules include many options of virtual tracking.

this is my interpretation of post 1 in fender's original thread. is it correct? so what is missing - what new rules can be added to optimise the strategy?

[dancer4k]

for testing, fender's optimum strategy:

OKAY BALINT AS REQUESTED. (01) You must wait for a losing game before you commence your session. So for example if the ball takes 9 or more spins to hit DOZEN 1. Thats your trigger. (02) You now wait until the ball fails to hit a dozen for 4 spins. Lets say its DOZEN 2. You now commence betting on it for a maximum of 4 spins (spin 5 to spin . (03) You use a slight progression over the 4 steps 1,1,2,3. You could use 1,1,2,2. And use the 8th spins as a stake retriever instead of a profit maker. That way you conserve a point. Plus most hits fall 5---7. In the beginning 1,1,2,2, was my plan.(04) If you win that first game, lets say DOZEN 2 HITS in the 7th spin. You have won 2pts. As a newbie I would end the session right there. And start a new session. You can do this 3 or 4 times a day. Until you build up a solid bankroll. (05) Lets say you lost that first game. You double your stakes on the next game. Most of the time you will win that game. And retrieve 4 of the 7 lost points. You will always make back your losses just be patient. The idea is to make a weekly profit not a daily one. (06) You ideally need a 250pt starting bank. With the ZONE. The lock (safety zone) is 500pts. So long as you play as I advise you will never ever wipe your bank out once you reach this point. THOSE are the seminal rules Balint. Users like stackbundles and chovek have made a few changes to how they run it. BUT, if you want my assurance that you will be successful you play as I tell you until you lock that 500pts. Then you can be a little more adventurous. Like going after 2 or 3 wins in a row. And increasing the value of a point. There can be winning streaks of over 20 in a row with THE ZONE. And its rare to lose more than 4 games in a row (including your qualifying game) If you ever have to face that 4th game I would suggest you bet 5 times your normal stake. And I can say with great confidence you're almost certain to win it. I have been faced by only 4 losses where there were 5 or more losing games in a row in 11 years. So this tells you how solid the fourth game is. I have recorded a winning streak of 127 in a row with the fourth game. There is nothing else in roulette that will top that. Thats why I will stake 10 times my normal bet size whenever I am faced with one. The latest one was on monday. The first one I have had to face IN PLAY for over a month.

[bombus]

Thanks for posting the rules Fender.


Now call me stupid, but I still don't get it.


Here is the newbie progression.


Bet 1, out 1, in 3, = +2.

Bet 1, out 2, in 3, = +1.

Bet 2, out 4, in 6, = +2.

Bet 3, out 7, in 9, = +2... So far so good.

Now,

Bet 2, out 9, in 6, = -3.

Bet 2, out 11, in 6, = -5.

Bet 4, out 15, in 12, = -3

Bet 6, out 21, in 18, = -3... Aren't we losing here?

Then,

Bet 5, out 26, in 15, = -11.

Bet 5, out 31, in 15, = -16.

Bet 10, out 41, in 30, = -11.

Bet 15, out 56, in 45, = -11... And losing here?

The way this is written, if you don't win with the first progression, then you're just throwing good money after bad and getting into a bigger hole.

Have I misunderstood something?

[bombus]

If recovery is the goal, then wouldn't the best exit point be after the 1st bet of the 2nd progression set where you have recovered 4 of the lost 7 from the 1st progression set. Why would you persist beyond this point when the balance just keeps going south from there?

[bombus]

Ok,

So after losing the 1st bet of the 2nd progression set why not go virtual for the remainder of that 2nd set?

If it happens to win there's no harm done because it doesn't get better than -3 anyway. If it happens to lose, then you have saved 12 points of ammunition that could be spread through the 3rd progression set to greatly improve the outcome...

Bet 1, out 1, in 3, = +2.

Bet 1, out 2, in 3, = +1.

Bet 2, out 4, in 6, = +2.

Bet 3, out 7, in 9, = +2.

Now,

Bet 2, out 9, in 6, = -3.

Now,
Virtual Bet 2, out 11, in 6, = -5.

Virtual Bet 4, out 15, in 12, = -3.

Virtual Bet 6, out 21, in 18, = -3.

Then,

Bet 5, out 14, in 15, = +1.

Bet 8, out 22, in 24, = +2.

Bet 14, out 36, in 42, = +6.

Bet 20, out 56, in 60, = +4.


Same total outlay of 56 points with much better results. I would expect a 20 point bet is also a common table limit, so it's do-able.

[dancer4k]

the way I see it, the maths for using only 1,1,2,3 on its own does not add up in relation to the expected hit rate, let alone doubling up at any time.

I'd be more inclined to have a go at creating a full suite of grind-based progressions that capitalise on the frequency of double or triple wins. play every trigger, or use some projected frequency tracking. it makes no difference to long term results. the concept either works or it doesn't. if it does, it matters not how often you do or do not play. but that is just me.

[TwoCatSam]

"You wait for a trigger game (a dozen that sleeps for 9 or more consecutive spins)"

DIRECT QUESTIONS FOR FENDER1000

_______________________________________________________________________________

Number 1.........OK, we wait for a dozen to sleep 9 times.  That means nine spins with a dozen not hitting, right?  Using DublinBet numbers (784 to be exact) there were no times when either a dozen or column slept even eight times, let alone nine. 

What do you do it a case such as this?  You would be sitting at the casino for hours on end for nothing.

Fender, please put away the smoke and mirrors and just give straight answers to my questions.  Stackbundles and Scooby seem to be sold on this, so I welcome their answers as secondary input. 

Again, no one would love to prove this system works anymore than I but it must pass a few hurdles.

Sam

[Herb6]

OK, we wait for a dozen to sleep 9 times

Question, what is the purpose of waiting for the dozen to sleep nine times?

What is it that you think is magically happening to these dozen numbers?

[gizmotron]

Question, what is the purpose of waiting for the dozen to sleep nine times?

What is it that you think is magically happening to these dozen numbers?

Fender1000 already explained it well in the beginning. It has some excellent creative ingenuity to it.

[TwoCatSam]

Herb

Personally, I don't think anything will happen if you wait nine spins.  I fully know that A has no effect of B and so on.  I would just like to try to test this for myself for two reasons:  1) I respect Scooby and 2) I'm working much too hard at making a beautiful yard and need some down time to rest!  

Scooby

You see, here's where we must part company.  First I tried RNG and Fender said no, no RNG--only live.  I programmed Super Roulette to sniff our eight losses and it could not in 784 spins.  Now it boils down to this:  I'm either lying or I'm not.  If I'm lying, so be it.  If not, what would a REAL player have done had they sat down at their computer to play?

This is what I call "smoke and mirrors" where a person ignores what happened in reality.  Sweep that one under the rug as it was an "anomaly".  Well, anomalies happen all the time; you must learn to deal with them.  What is, is!  I could have just as easily gone to Spielbank and downloaded numbers and ran them through the program.  And, yes, I might go a year before I find such a "run from Hell", but it's out there.  It always is!  And the Devil in the details is that they can come back to back.

I can post the numbers but I don't think anyone is going to go through 784 numbers to do what the computer did in a minute or less.  I will try again in the next few days and see if I can get a question using numbers from Spielbank as they can be verified by anyone.  

I hope you're not offended.  I'd love to prove Herb and myself wrong and find some key to the mint.  I'd hire me an illegal Elbonian to do my yard work.

(Now that was TwoCat humor  Relax!)

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

SECOND QUESTION FOR FENDER..............................

(I think he's ignoring me!!   )

Fender, o'l Bean, ol' Pal.......

In one of your posts you state you do not bet the first time your dozen loses.  Well, that would be eight spins. Four to qualify and four to lose.  So why tell us to wait nine?  It's things like this that drive logical minds to doubt.  

I'll cut and past the statement: so hold on if you're reading.

Here ya go................

"A 1000PTS PLAYER
(01)You wait for a trigger game (a dozen that sleeps for 9 or more consecutive spins) THIS GAME IS PART OF YOUR SESSION,even though you haven't played it. What you have done is now put the odds EVEN MORE IN YOUR FAVOUR.  ME HERE:  YOU KNOW THIS LAST ALL-CAPS STATEMENT CAN BE PROVEN FALSE QUITE EASILY, DON'T YOU?

(02)You now wait for the first DOZEN to go 4 spins without being hit, if there are twin qualifiers you don't bet unless one of them lost its previous 2 games.In which case you favour that one alone.  ME HERE: AND YOU BET FOR FOUR SPINS WHICH IS EIGHT NOT NINE.  WHY IS THE FIRST "GAME" NINE AND ALL OTHERS EIGHT?

_________________________________________________________________________________________
OK, THIRD QUESTION.................

Now as to the staking plan, as you saying on the third game you normally bet 5,5,10,15, but you could bet the 10,10,20,30?  So you really start with 1 and could (if you like) end up with 30?"

Be nice!  Remember, I'm somewhat Herb-ish, but not Herb.  I allow as how there could be a back door and you might have found it.  Just want to test for myself.

Sam

[Catman]

This is my first post.  I'm fairly new, and a rookie.  I haven't posted before because of a lack of experience to contribute.


TwoCat,

I can understand the confusion, because Rule 1 has most times not been stated correctly.

As I see it:

A qualifying dozen must do two things,
- miss for 8 spins
- then hit.

This will take at least 9 spins.  People incorrectly state that as missing for 9 spins.

To back this up, here is an excerpt from Fender's play (using the strict rookie method).

DOZEN 2=17----TRIGGER FOR THE SESSION AND ALSO PART OF THE 12 GAME FRAME
DOZEN 1=7+2PTS
DOZEN 1=6----NO BET
DOZEN 3=6----NO BET
DOZEN 3=8----NO BET
DOZEN 2=11----TRIGGER 2
DOZEN 3=5+2PTS
DOZEN 1=5----NO BET

The number after the = sign is the spin number the dozen hit.

The qualifiers and losers are greater than 8.  The winners are from 5 to 8.

Wait for a qualifier, then wait for a dozen to miss 4 spins, and bet it for spins 5 - 8.

I hope that is clearer.

[TwoCatSam]

Catman

You wrote:

"As I see it:

A qualifying dozen must do two things,
- miss for 8 spins
- then hit"

That is NOT what Fender said!  Read him, "(a dozen that sleeps for 9 or more consecutive spins)".  "To sleep" means that it did not hit in nine spins.  How can a person who's been using a system ten or eleven years not be sure of what the rules to his own system are?  This makes no sense.

Then you wrote:  "People incorrectly state that as missing for 9 spins."  Where is the mistake when he clearly states it must sleep for nine or more spins?

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

Fender

You and Scooby are not serving yourselves well by saying, "Oh, you're using the wrong spins!"  What a cop-out!

You wrote:  "DUBLIN NET IS NOT A GENUINE REAL FAIR WHEEL THEN"  The "then" on the end makes it sound as if Dublin was out to destroy your system.  As if it knew what I would do with those spins!  In other words, if a wheel does not win for you, it's not a "genuine real fair wheel", right?

First and foremost, it makes no difference how slow the spins come on Dublin.  And you are wrong about the time between spins.  If you log on in the middle of the Dublin night, they come every thirty to thirty-five seconds.  Don't challenge me on this as I can make a video and show you are wrong!!

But as to the <wrong casino>.  Oh, Geez, man do you realize how ignorant that sounds?  Dublin has been proven to be one of the most fair if not the most fair on the net.  You can even go there in person and check to see if the spins posted actually came.  Yes, a fellow named Diarmaid who lives in Dublin did just that.

As I suspected, you are curve-fitting your data to fit the system.  You can do that on forums and on paper, but not in the real world.  Had you had anything worth discussing, you would have accepted the challenge and showed people what you could do.

Now, lets assume your 300 spins is right.  Who--again--wants to sit for 300 spins waiting for an opportunity to bet?  That's a long time.  I'd fall asleep!

Sam

[Catman]

Catman

You wrote:

"As I see it:

A qualifying dozen must do two things,
- miss for 8 spins
- then hit"

That is NOT what Fender said!  Read him, "(a dozen that sleeps for 9 or more consecutive spins)".   "To sleep" means that it did not hit in nine spins.   How can a person who's been using a system ten or eleven years not be sure of what the rules to his own system are?  This makes no sense.

Then you wrote:  "People incorrectly state that as missing for 9 spins. "  Where is the mistake when he clearly states it must sleep for nine or more spins?

Sam

Sam



"That is NOT what Fender said!  Read him, "(a dozen that sleeps for 9 or more consecutive spins)".  " Yes, he did say that.  That sounds clear.

If I'm mistaken, I apologize for adding to the confusion.

But in previous replies, he said:

OKAY BALINT AS REQUESTED.  (01) You must wait for a losing game before you commence your session.  So for example if the ball takes 9 or more spins to hit DOZEN 1.  Thats your trigger.

Fraudster, here are the basic rules once again. . .
(01)You wait until there is a dozen that takes 9 or more spins to be hit.  That is a losing game and triggers the
session

Also, form one of Fender's games:
FRIDAY
DOZEN 1=9---TRIGGER FOR SESSION AND ALSO PART OF 12 GAME FRAME
DOZEN 1=12-7PTS
DOZEN 3=5+4PTS--(DOUBLE STAKES)
DOZEN 2=7--NO BET
DOZEN 1=6+1PT----(BET because DOZEN 1 LOST ITS PREVIOUS TWO GAMES)
DOZEN 3=10--TRIGGER 2
DOZEN 2=5+2PTS----Session ended here after 3 winners BROKE EVEN
DOZEN 2=8
DOZEN 1=7+2PTS----FOR THE HATRICK WINNER SESSION COMPLETE AT THIS POINT
DOZEN 3=10
DOZEN 3=6
DZOEN 2=5----SESSION COMPLETE 8 WINS--4 LOSSES--AND 2PTS PROFIT

Note the trigger for game 1 is on spin 9.


Perhaps Fender can clear this up.

Mike

[Catman]

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