Winners Edge

[JLP]

Hi mates,

Found this article about Reverse Labouchere but it´s not clear.
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The Winner's Edge System - A variant of the Labouchere System in Reverse: (Submitted by a visitor)

(Note: The description of the system is reproduced below the exact way it was submitted, word for word. The idea behind this system seems to make a lot of sense. However, the betting procedure and the amounts involved are not clear. If anyone can help in clarifying this, it will be greatly appreciated.)

"This is one invited by a Canadian many years ago. It is like the Cancellation System above with this variation: When winning, ( add the first and last number in the sequence ), the first time, and then 3 numbers until you lose. If you lose, add that to the end of the sequence and bet only the first(only one) number not crossed off. If you lose again, go to betting the unit bet, to preserve capital. I have found one needs about 40 times the first number in the sequence when starting as a bankroll , with the initial numbers being about 40-20-20-20 % (ie $50. sequence would be written: $20-10-10-10.)Your bankroll taken to the table will be $1000.00.This means, I've found that you only have to win 30% of the time to be successful! I have used this very successfully in the casinos, to the point that I was asked to leave the table several times, as the casinos dont want consistent winners. It scares them. This system requires nerve, fearlessness and an appropriate bank roll. WHen playing Baccarrat, I was winning $4000. an hour , but again, don't back off pushing the money out, or you will lose. The system really forces one to bet large when winning and small when losing, which is exactly the opposite of what most people do- and what the casino expects.YOu also need high enough table limits . It can be used playing blackjack, baccarrat or roulette, but is best for blackjack. Make sure you get their OK to write the bets down before you start, and tell them you are not counting cards."

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As I understand it we have :
First line bet 1 2 3 4
We bet 4 + 1 = 5 first bet as in the Labouchere
Suppose we win :
I put 5 and 1 - 3 times as the author says
5 1 1 1
Now I bet 5+1 = 6
I lose
The line goes :
5 1 1 1 6
Now I bet only 5
I lose
The line goes :
1 1 1 6 5
I bet then 1 to preserve the bankroll.

That is how I understand it.
Someone have other opinion???
Victor???

Cheers,
JLP.-

[Toothpaste]

Hi mate. Where did you dig this post up? It is years old

This post is unclear, but if i remember correctly, it was connected to reverse labouchere system, which you probably know (increase bets when winning, same when losing).

When winning, ( add the first and last number in the sequence ), the first time, and then 3 numbers until you lose. --- this means that first time we add 2 numbers, and next time 3 until we lose, when we go to 1, if we lose again, we wait for win to get back on track.. and so on...

I kept it short, hope this is clear.

Cheers, TP

[JLP]

Hi mate. Where did you dig this post up? It is years old

I get it from here :
nolinks://nolinks.ildado.com/labouchere_system.html

This post is unclear, but if I remember correctly, it was connected to reverse labouchere system, which you probably know (increase bets when winning, same when losing).

From what I understand is a variation of the reverse Labouchere, but is not clearly explained.

When winning, ( add the first and last number in the sequence ), the first time, and then 3 numbers until you lose. --- this means that first time we add 2 numbers, and next time 3 until we lose, when we go to 1, if we lose again, we wait for win to get back on track.. and so on...

First we add 2 numbers and next we add 3 numbers???
This is not clear.

I kept it short, hope this is clear.

Cheers, TP

Hi mate,
I don´t understand the last part you wrote.
Can you put an example test mate to clarify.

Cheers,
JLP.-

[Toothpaste]

Hi mate, I read that same post from betadvice.com forum few years ago, it was same as this one.

I will give example which should clarify all:
Bets will be on low. We start with 1-2-3-4 (aimed win is 10 units)


DEALER GOSIA
26 Bet 5 (1+4) L series is now 1-2-3-4-5

33 Bet 1 (first number only) L series is now 1-2-3-4-5-1

18 Bet 1 W, series is now 1-2-3-4-5

33 Bet 6 L, series is now 1-2-3-4-5-6

32 Bet 1 L, series is now 1-2-3-4-5-6-1

18 Bet 1 W, series is now 1-2-3-4-5-6

5 Bet 7 W, series is now 2-3-4-5

5 Bet 10W (2+3+5 - we won last spin, so we go adding up 3 numbers), series is now 4, what I like to do when I have this is split 4 into something like 1-2-1 (bet is still same, but it lowers speed at which bets increase)

31 Bet 4L, series is now 4-4

10 Bet 4W, series is now 4

7 Bet 4W, series is now completed and we can start over, series is now 1-2-3-4

2 Bet 5W, series is now 2-3

13 Bet 5W, series is completed, we start over, series is now 1-2-3-4

10 Bet 5W, series is now 2-3

19 Bet 5L, series is now 2-3-5

20 Bet 2L,we got 2 losses, so bet goes to one unit, series is now 2-3-5-2

31 Bet 1L, series is now 2-3-5-2-1

25 Bet 1L, series is now 2-3-5-2-1-1

11 Bet 1W, series is now 2-3-5-2-1

7 Bet 3W, series is now 3-5-2

21 Bet 5L, series is now 3-5-2-5

13 Bet 3W, series is now 5-2-5

31 Bet 10L,series is now 5-2-5-10

0 Bet 5L, series is now 5-2-5-10-5

9 Bet 1W, series is now 4-2-5-10-5 (i did -1 to first number, since this number could affect bet size most)

10 Bet 9W,series is now 2-5-10

7 Bet 17W, series completed.


I havent used this progression long time, so I hope I didnt mess up somewhere


Cheers, TP

[JLP]

Hi Toothpaste,

Great and detailed explanation. Now is clear mate.

Cheers,
JLP.-

[TwoCatSam]

While losing, it falls back to a smaller bet.  While winning it aggressively attempts to clear the line.

I read this before--somewhere.

Thanks, guys.  This is worth the cut-and-paste to my permanent files.

Samster

[witho]

This system is from the book - The Winners Edge by Bruce Irwin. It is also called the midas system. If you read the book, it tells the story of how his uncle gave him the system before he died for all even chance games. He claims he used it in hundreds of casino's and it never failed him. I found those claims to be a bit tall although I have never actually tested it properly using his bet selection for roulette

[Natural9]

Do you remember what bet selection it was

[witho]

The way he bets for roulette, is the following ways:
Either black and odd together, or red and even together. Eg place 1 chip on red, and 1 chip on even. You are covering more than half the board but will only win on 8 (12, 14, 16, 18, 30, 32, 34, 36) the rest you will break even. The black / odds you will lose on.

Two columns: If a black number comes up, he will then bet on C1 and C2. If a red number comes up, he will then bet on C1, and C3. Thats because those columns have the most of that colour in them.

He also mentions he will bet on an even chance that is dominant. Like red for instance. He will continue to back that selection and will not change it until it loses. He mentions he has done this many times when there is a big streak, and has watched others at the table bet against the streak and double up and lose big.

He uses the midas method of money management with these selections to determine how much to bet. His aim is to complete a sequence. When he does, he starts another one. He claims it is definately not a get rich scheme, and  requires a lot of patience, but says it never failed him.

[Natural9]

Thanks for that I got couple more questions

What kind of BR you reccommend and what is midas MM

Regards Rodney

[Ka2]

With all due respect but you doing it wrong.

The betting goes like this.

First you start the cycle with betting the first in line, so (2 1 1 1) would be 2

if you win, you cross out the 2 and the new bet will be the first and last in line, so (2 1 1 1) would be 2 again. (1+1)

if you lose you cross out nothing and you add the 2 at the end, so (2 1 1 1 2) and for your next bet, you will only bet the first in line, so 2.

Example...

2 1 1 1 (bet 2)

LOSE

2 1 1 1 2 (bet 2)

LOSE

2 1 1 1 2 2 (bet 2)

WIN

2 1 1 1 2 2 (bet 3 (1+2))

WIN

2 1 1 1 2 2 (bet 3)

WIN

2 1 1 1 2 2 (bet 1)

LOSE

2 1 1 1 2 2 1 (bet 1)

WIN

2 1 1 1 2 2 1 (bet 1)

WIN

2 1 1 1 2 2 1 CYCLE complete and would have won 5 units. I tried this system a few times, but it can get mighty high, and that only for 5 units... so try with discresion ;-)

[Worm]

Ka2 ty for this 

what jlp posted said 20-10-10-10 but what TP posted said 1-2-3-4 so i had no idea what to think about this one, i think we are mixing up 2 simular but diffrent betting methods[smiley=Santa001.gif]

/Worm

[witho]

Hi, yeah the way you did the sequence cancellation is correct. Only thing to add is that after two wins of adding first and last, you will add 3 first two and last together or first and last two. This is the most you will ever try and cancel at once (3 numbers)

The Midas system is this very method. It was named this after the guy who used it, Bruce Irwin. Author of the book "The Winners Edge"You can still buy it secondhand. We call it Midas MM because it is basically just Money Management. However he does have some bet selection methods in his book. The ones I explained for roulette. He doesnt mention anything about baccarat but does say the system will work with it. Also craps. He does say roulette was his forte with this system and he was a consistent winner. The only reason he played the other games was because he got bored of playing roulette so much.

The bankrolls he recommends are:

For a $10 sequence - $700 -   eg 4-2-2-2
For a $20 sequence - $1000 - eg 8-4-4-4
For a $35 sequence - $1500 - eg 14-7-7-7
For a $50 sequence - $2000 - eg 20-10-10-10
Theres a few in between

But highest was
$100 - $5000 - eg 40-20-20-20

He does say half a bankroll is as good as no bankroll at all, in other words dont play unless you have the full amount. He mentions most times you will only need a fraction of the Br but on a bad run you may need close to the full amount to complete the sequence.

As you can see this system has me intrigued. I am testing it again at the moment on roulette. Roulette Xtreme - $500 starting bank with $10 sequence (under recommended amount) and so far am up 25%. If you use his bet selection methods they do work. I didnt like them at first.

[roules]

Hi, yeah the way you did the sequence cancellation is correct. Only thing to add is that after two wins of adding first and last, you will add 3 first two and last together or first and last two. This is the most you will ever try and cancel at once (3 numbers)

The Midas system is this very method. It was named this after the guy who used it, Bruce Irwin. Author of the book "The Winners Edge"You can still buy it secondhand. We call it Midas MM because it is basically just Money Management. However he does have some bet selection methods in his book. The ones I explained for roulette. He doesnt mention anything about baccarat but does say the system will work with it. Also craps. He does say roulette was his forte with this system and he was a consistent winner. The only reason he played the other games was because he got bored of playing roulette so much.

The bankrolls he recommends are:

For a $10 sequence - $700 -   eg 4-2-2-2
For a $20 sequence - $1000 - eg 8-4-4-4
For a $35 sequence - $1500 - eg 14-7-7-7
For a $50 sequence - $2000 - eg 20-10-10-10
Theres a few in between

But highest was
$100 - $5000 - eg 40-20-20-20

He does say half a bankroll is as good as no bankroll at all, in other words dont play unless you have the full amount. He mentions most times you will only need a fraction of the Br but on a bad run you may need close to the full amount to complete the sequence.

As you can see this system has me intrigued. I am testing it again at the moment on roulette. Roulette Xtreme - $500 starting bank with $10 sequence (under recommended amount) and so far am up 25%. If you use his bet selection methods they do work. I didnt like them at first.

Hey witho,
I've got that book too - very good if not for systems at least for mentality and discipline etc
Just an idea....see if this helps with bet selection at all.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/full-systems/even-chances-system-(variation-steve-morgan)/

[Worm]

Any good way to tweak this mentalaty into Dozens /Columns betting?

[Worm]

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