RNG Analysis Software

[Steve]

Soon i'm going to have programmers work on software that will analyze RNG spins to check for patterns or anything that can be exploited. It will function as a sort of AI (artificial intelligence) where algorithms will be changed then tested, then results analyzed to check for statistical anomalies. It will not be like roulette xtreme where things need to be defined - it will be more on AI which is far more complex.

This is a serious push to find the "holy grail", without being related to precognition (which may very well be a viable answer anyway, but thats another story).

So in this thread I'm after ideas to put in the software. For example:

* different ways to visually represent data (to visually check for possible patterns). This is partly how I discovered how best to model the relationship between variables, other variables and spin outcomes for real wheels.

* Variables to try. For example, the software may be asked to see if specific events are any more likely to occur after other specific events.

For now it is very early days. I anticipate it will be free for everyone - a sort of "open source" project. The forum exists to find ways to beat roulette. Well it's for more than that for most people. But for rng discussions, the forums all go in circles with little or no organized/concentrated effort to get things done.

Please let's have serious discussions here about what can be done. This part of development is more about INTUITION rather than logic. Logic comes later. We are just after ideas.

[gizmotron]

Good idea. I'm working on mine too. I know for a fact that the elegant pattern exists. I've used them four times now in the past twenty years. They are very rare. But they are also pure ATM machine in quality. Every random oriented game at a casino is susceptible to them as a very powerful weakness. That leaves you with the not so perfect patterns and trends that occur all the time. The more you know about trends the easier it will be to write your software. Good luck with it.

[Steve]

I have seen patterns in RNG for myself, but none that are practical or can be used, at least not yet. I do believe it is possible to beat rng some way, but just not in the way 99.9% of RNG players try.

[DonRoul]

Hey Guys

Am simply appaled that people are still thinking that the roulette" can be beaten"
Its clear that the roulette has been beaten.

The only question is whether the roulette boss will allow you to beat it with any system under trial. . . .

Look am not even guessing I can tell you of a fact I have used established principles known by most sensible casino boss and recently used $300 to make over 15,000 over the course of 3 weeks on a live casino.

I wont name which one but the catch was that their sheat software was nit working so they quickly scrambled and got it sorted. . I know there are skeptics that will doubt this.

But even the so called brick and mortar casinos are beaten. . . I will challenge anyone who knows a brick and mortar casino where the wheel is not manipulated by computer let me know where on the planet it is I will meet you there and personally show you how I play the roulette game and kick ass!

Truth be told there are very few roulette casinos which do not manipulate the wheel result with computer.

Many people are totally unaware but for the observant player they will see the supervisor looking closely at the bets and clicking away at the computer.

In summary the issue/question is not which system can or will beat the roulette but which roulette boss will allow the good player to beat his roulette (online or offline)

[gizmotron]

Truth be told there are very few roulette casinos which do not manipulate the wheel result with computer.

Many people are totally unaware but for the observant player they will see the supervisor looking closely at the bets and clicking away at the computer.

In summary the issue/question is not which system can or will beat the roulette but which roulette boss will allow the good player to beat his roulette (online or offline)

I just love magical thinking. Imagine I was to walk up to the door of surgery in a hospital, where a life and death surgery was going on, and I concluded that it was a Milk Man sacrifice to the gods of Linen, Blood, and Secret Masks. I'd know the secret. Now imagine that I show up at a pharmaceutical junket for tired surgeons in the Cayman Islands. I could tells them the secret of the masks.

Smart guy? Have you any understanding or knowledge about comps? What are those?... I know, they are payoffs for tempting people to come back and get screwed by the master computer. 

[DonRoul]

I just love magical thinking.  Imagine I was to walk up to the door of surgery in a hospital, where a life and death surgery was going on, and I concluded that it was a Milk Man sacrifice to the gods of Linen, Blood, and Secret Masks.  I'd know the secret.  Now imagine that I show up at a pharmaceutical junket for tired surgeons in the Cayman Islands.  I could tells them the secret of the masks.

Smart guy? Have you any understanding or knowledge about comps? What are those?. . .  I know, they are payoffs for tempting people to come back and get screwed by the master computer.  

Its obvious that the online games use other software that manipulate the roulette result hence the sudden change in wheel spin then a loss.

Also explains why its so easy when playing with fun money as opposed to real money.

Lets not kid ourselves. . . CASINOS = Crooks (whether or not we want to accept or believe it)

As for the brick and mortar just take a visit to Fallsview Casino in Niagara falls Canada. Visit the VIP room just observe instead of play.

[gizmotron]

Its obvious that the online games use other software that manipulate the roulette result hence the sudden change in wheel spin then a loss.

Also explains why its so easy when playing with fun money as opposed to real money. 

I know man! George Bush knows all about it too. That's why he put the kibosh on on-line gambling in the USA.

[bombus]

So what's the goal here?

Are you trying to develop something that consistently beats RNG by flat betting?

If so, I think you'll struggle.


Like it or not, I think you will have to employ some kind of progressive betting to stand any chance.

And then there is the real danger of disconnection from online casinos just as you reach the upper levels of your progression ladder...so easy to do, and that's free money for them.

Why do you want to beat RNG?

Is it to develop a bot for playing online, or are you looking to develop something people can play manually in real time?

[Steve]

The aim is to create software that uses a form of artificial intelligence to search for any kind of usable pattern with rng numbers. I know there are patterns - there are fractals. But those ones cannot be used in any practical way.

This kind of software will just run when you arent using your computer. It may generate and search through a few million spins with different combinations, looking for different things - countless permutations.

One example is looking at a string of numbers, then seeing where and when it occurs again, then compare that to the last time, then last time etc etc.

[bombus]

Yes, but what will you do with it?

[Steve]

It is a concentrated effort to see if usable patterns in rng can be found. If I succeed, then the patterns will be used to develop an rng system.

I plan to make the software free. After all, we are not competing against each other. The catch is results will be uploaded to my server so if someone succeeds, I will know about it. So will the user that found potential patterns. From there, I intend to share it. Imagine what it would do to casinos using rng.

It's like software that is available for everyone, which searches for order in seemingly random radio signals from space. When you dont use your computer, data can be analyzed. I think it was SETI has something like that. That way it is like using a super computer to analyze a lot of data, and in this case, over 1m spins, there are countless possible permutations. For a single computer to do that many calculations would take forever.

Do I expect to succeed? Nope. But I'm still going to try. And since everyone is so set on rng, why dont we finally put our heads together. This is an open project for everyone.

[schoenpoetser]

I am very much surprised.Steve as an expert of the knowledge of the roulette is developing a HOLY GRAIL.A roulette wheel and a fair RNG do the same.They create a honest random row.35 Years long I study random rows with the computer.I did it with BASIC,VB and now with excel.I use in strategies the features of the sequences .I have developed several strategies they will not loose over 1M spins.You cannot use these strategies ,because they use too much time.That is the  problem .
A practical strategy must give a profit within 250 spins.Searching for patterns in number random rows is waisting your time.I use the features of the random rows of the ECs,dozens and columns,sixlines and streets.

[Steve]

The major difference between rng and real wheels is that:

RNG uses chipset timings, all digital. There are no physics or known variables to use to calculate predictions. And there is no logical progression of events - it is a digital environment. Rng is not even roulette at all - its a fancy slot machine.

Real wheels: it is all real and physical. Things behave according to laws we can measure for predictiom.

Again I dont expect to succeed, but i'm still going to try. If anyone has any theories about rng and patterns, this may be the best place you can contribute.

[Steve]

Perhaps what I'm asking from everyone needs a different approach. Let's first ask this question:

With rng, what IS predictable?

come on guys, put your heads together. It sure beats running around like headless chooks coming up with the same stuff repackaged in a different way.

For example:

At least over the short term, there will be uneven distribution (clumping). In other words, over 37 spins, in your lifetime you're unlikely to ever see all 37 numbers hit in 37 spins.

What else do we know? Importantly the above doesnt help us increase the accuracy, at least not directly. We MUST increase accuracy of predictions. That's why we're searching for some kind of order or predictability.

[schoenpoetser]

In science we have some different kind of RNGs.In statistic we have several methos,test, to prove a sequence is random..There is no doubt on the randomness of modern RNG.On the PC we use e pseudo RNG which create a sequence by a mathematics algorithm.I asked my university ,is it possible to detect the algorithm when you know the random row.The answer was ,it is waisting your time.

The more possibilities of a chance the larger must be the test sample.For numbers over the 1M.
I transfer the number sequence in a sequence of HIGH and LOW.IN this case I need a small sequence to detect special events .I found that the results of a 250 spin sample is enough to develop a strategy.The very simply theory of Blaise Pascal tells me what the average permanence must be.
My bots beat the roulette, but the profit is very poor and take a lot of time ( number of spins).

I shall follow the discussion with great interest.

[schoenpoetser]

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