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VLS' Focused ATILA question

Started by cps10, November 24, 2008, 11:58:22 PM

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cps10

Hi Victor,

That is interesting what you posted regarding the focused ATILA. My question is this:

If you are starting 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

I would assume that you are watching the wheel for some misses?

So in your example, 4 spins come up before the #5 shows, so you would have the following (numbers are just examples):

No bet - 23
No bet - 18
No bet - 33
No bet - 5

So now the string looks like: 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0

Would you now bet 4 units on #5 and no units on anything else?

If possible, could you run us through a session to illustrate how you would play this?

VLSroulette

QuoteSo in your example, 4 spins come up before the #5 shows, so you would have the following (numbers are just examples):

No bet - 23
No bet - 18
No bet - 33
No bet - 5

So now the string looks like: 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0

Would you now bet 4 units on #5 and no units on anything else?

Yes mate, that's "per the book". But in my most of my tests I like to start counting AFTER a number from bet selection hits and place only 1 unit on it for a start. Both ways are valid.




This is a MM progression you either love or plain dislike, but with this baby you can say you are DOING BAD if you are getting "merely"/only 2 units per spin... mind you. 3,4 and 5+ units per spin is not unseen at good sessions :o, but as it is AVERAGE, then you get horrible drawdowns, and very focused upward spikes; which is why ATILA always says you need bankroll and balls to succeed, as you will win when it is your turn to win and lose the session you have to lose, no matter what.

Assuming you fall into the "average luck" player, then your dispersion won't be the largest in the world and you have a shot to get your +500 units before the casino takes your whole bank. Atila said you have to go with disposition to reach your win goal or lose it all. But hey, I'm also influenced by Manrique and that shouldn't be that way ;) I like to use max. drawdown to resist instead of getting wiped as my meassure to call a session a loser. If I'm up +250, then I won't lose the whole funds, because I have won +250 which are locked and ensure I just can't leave the table wiped, and work by helping the averages, 250 units less to recoup, rather than the whole session bankroll.

This MM has an arse kicking Return per spin, but you have to do some serious tweaks on bet selection and timing, otherwise you are betting continuously and swallowing all the dispersion.

When the charts start to flow some will be into focused ATILA for sure, some charts are plain insane, reaching +500 and more in the range of 100 to less than 200 spins is not uncommon! :)

Regards.
Victor

TwoCatSam

Victor wrote:

"you will win when it is your turn to win and lose the session you have to lose, no matter what."

Perhaps the greatest truth I've read on this forum!  This morning was my turn and I could do no wrong.  Tonight it was not my turn and I'm lucky to get out with a $71 loss. 

Here's the way I see it.  Learn when it's not your turn and toss in the towel.  Ronjo once said--Why stick around for a beating?  (Something like that.)  My wife swears that luck is all that matters.  Knowing when you're lucky is the key. 

I'm sure trying to learn!

Sam

cps10

You are right Victor!

I did a session last night on some numbers I have and actually got to +605 within 48 spins...that kind of win is insane!!

I also did another session of about 300 spins...and it got up +12,000 at one point before finally "sliding" to +10,500. But as you said, the upswings are ridiculous. Later on, I will provide a test session and if you could look it over to make sure I am doing it right, I would certainly appreciate it.

Now, do you start over after a win, provided that it gets you above your previous high bankroll, or do you continue with the same amount of units from the winning bet (that's how I tested it).

I am thinking of incorporating this into a roots bet selection. I think that it will be interesting to play with only 4 numbers and see where it goes from there.

TwoCatSam

cps10

I'd sure like to see some information on how you're selecting your bets.  An "Idiot's Guide" would be helpful.  :D

Sam

cps10

You got it Sam. I will first illustrate what I think Victor is doing with his 9-number selection. And if I am doing it correctly, I will be glad to take a look at how I select the roots and incorporate the system that way too. I do think that it could be a one-hit wonder...meaning get 1 hit and you have made a ton of money.

ChickenDinner

You certainly need big balls (and steady nerves) to play like this. But I like it! Nice one Victor. I'll run some tests.
Cheers,
CD

VLSroulette

QuoteI have and actually got to +605 within 48 spins

605/48 = 12,60 units per spin!

QuoteI also did another session of about 300 spins...and it got up +12,000 at one point before finally "sliding" to +10,500.

10,500/300 = 35 units per spin.  :o :o :o

Keith, you really have to share that bet selection :)
Victor

VLSroulette

Okay, understanding why Atila (the person) affirmed one has a fair shot at the game. As long as you are an "average luck" player, you won't have enough hit rate to win using flat bets, but also, your dispersion  for each session won't be that of an unlucky player. For instance, you will be near the ideals, then get some sessions with huge dispersions as natural fluctuation.
This is why ATILA said bet selection is useless; as he is convinced with regular luck and the guaranteed hit rate embedded at the game PLUS THE CORRECT MONEY MANAGEMENT you can have more winning sessions than losing sessions and stay in the plus at the averages.

Now we need to understand Atila doesn't vouch for never losing a bankroll, but rather he embraces losses in a win/loss SESSION ratio. I.e. if you make +500 with a 1000-unit bank, it is business to win AT LEAST 3 sessions  per loss average. So you'll win +500 +500 +500 (+1500 total) and lose -1000.

Yes, he warns unit exposure is high for such a gameplay framework but also rewards :)

Atila said you have to put every unit of your bank at stake, have big balls to win, and you hand shouldn't shake to lay the large bets; Manrique on the other hand said you must find joy at every unit NOT lost, cover less numbers to put less units and make many pauses to keep the adrenalin low.

Who's right who's wrong? It depends on the player, and what each player can take. As always, what suits the person is what is right.
Victor

VLSroulette

Quote from: ChickenDinner on November 26, 2008, 02:46:09 PM
You certainly need big balls (and steady nerves) to play like this. But I like it! Nice one Victor. I'll run some tests.
Cheers,
CD


Go mate, it certainly is a thrill to see it in action :) This is explosive, both for the good sessions and the losing ones.

Okay, okay, not that much of a thrill at the losing session :D

Dear CD, feel free to share the results of your tests and also it would be nice if you share your tested bet selection too.

Cheers.
Your friend,
Victor

cps10

Quote from: VLSroulette on November 26, 2008, 08:30:08 PM
QuoteI have and actually got to +605 within 48 spins

605/48 = 12,60 units per spin!

QuoteI also did another session of about 300 spins...and it got up +12,000 at one point before finally "sliding" to +10,500.

10,500/300 = 35 units per spin.  :o :o :o

Keith, you really have to share that bet selection :)
Victor

Victor - the bet selection was the same as yours...playing just numbers 1-9...I will do a session and send it over so that I can see that I've done this right.

cps10

Quote from: VLSroulette on November 26, 2008, 10:58:10 PM
Quote from: ChickenDinner on November 26, 2008, 02:46:09 PM
You certainly need big balls (and steady nerves) to play like this. But I like it! Nice one Victor. I'll run some tests.
Cheers,
CD


Go mate, it certainly is a thrill to see it in action :) This is explosive, both for the good sessions and the losing ones.

Okay, okay, not that much of a thrill at the losing session :D

Dear CD, feel free to share the results of your tests and also it would be nice if you share your tested bet selection too.

Cheers.
Your friend,
Victor


Yes....could you imagine how thrilling winning 10,000 in units with a 1,000 unit bank be? Think about that...you are so far ahead of the curve at that point that you could almost create 5 1,000-unit bankrolls with $2 units!! And then using 50/50...winning 500 units would build another bankroll quickly! Wow!

VLSroulette

QuoteVictor - the bet selection was the same as yours...playing just numbers 1-9...

Hi Keith, that is what ATILA suggested for testing, not me directly... Anyway, I bet that is the very very first bet selection anyone could think for 9 numbers:
"erm.. ¿bet selection for 9 numbers?... erm... well... okay, make them 1 to 9 on the layout". lol  ;D

It is okay; anyone is entitled to its own opinion on gambling. 9 numbers are 9 numbers, but I have seen the clumping/cycles, I have experienced the reality of the wheel backing some groups far more than the ideal-values while letting literally dry some others, cycle after cycle; so I'm more picky with my actual bet-selection.

Not my idea of smart play to end up having the high values layed on a sleeper number. Remember I'm into timing, not betting what isn't being spun, going with the wheel. etc.

Hey Keith, care to start posting your charts? You show yours, I'll show mine :)
Victor

cps10

I was thinking maybe taking sectors on the wheel as your 9-number selections. Perhaps waiting until one of those groups sleeps for 8 spins, and then start betting on what you have accumulated over the course of waiting on that drought. Would this make sense?

I hit 1,000+ units live on DB last night...it was quite a thrill. And in less than 45 minutes.

MattyMattz

Keep up the great work Keith!

Sorry I've been away lately... new job and a knee injury has kept me busy. 

Cheers,
Matt

MattyMattz

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