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Competition software coming right along.

Started by gizmotron, May 02, 2009, 07:22:00 PM

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

gizmotron

Here is an example of a 100 spin competition where the delay is set to 45 seconds before the spin button will be reactivated.

<Roulette Ride Competition version="1.2"> -- Decryption Key for decrypting true results = 47217382

<encrypt key>
H4sIAAAAAAAAAx2MyxXAQAgCW7EAD4ufrOm/sYw5wBt5oFpuM27qdLtufeADRAQX0qWiauzl
jCq3XEgW0b8R6WG5VQL+NRpQucOtfsZI1KxrAAAA</encrypt key>

<decrypt key>
H4sIAAAAAAAAAx2MyREAQQgCUzEAH4uWc+Sf2DbzsKUELH0Znr7elVHVoFHSoLTAvBvQM45j
LrTbY1yyWqgtnmUQGea8jj23f6jCS+5uAAAA</decrypt key>

<seconds waited>
H4sIAAAAAAAAAx2LwREAIQwCW6EAHpdoEu2/sQM/zA4sUZtYh5gkMgUxoziqo01ZxClXbSOk
apuP2JcoP958/Sg9crXJ4wMZbSEl/L+/LN5vAAAA</seconds waited>

<number of spins>100</number of spins>

<type of wheel>European</type of wheel>

<encrypted spins>
H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Vy4EkMQhDU+kA+mDwP//Elidwzx66plzGAiSZOff7sb2/n9HiZRiPEY8W
y83enbHX4+X49+PDCf9+Zmy763M8esTs+JnxmAsQzraAO4F2WXg8dmyRzAlUwpV4Zsplhbr0
GXiPqEDo1NRPbE9KBFCBPuJwJ3ACMA5QhHUiht7AYtlv9bUi+RQgtVUBykDKCYY6JtaNHt4+
D4cp2tt8XnTh1N0C9VSPKtWsV0nemxJN2OsEZzZqVPFXtAJOOdBp53HhDcI8YK6I2vmyvTSb
TxuhO8tGCYvoxrerEpSCN6gWY+pIEJQXBy8NSzmpycP7A9T3swvqrmJaCD5n0ohctpCo9dRd
nbIWrbOsUZ2pjP0DGdkWf91ZsN/3I42DdGp4KhtSxSIbllavomRPi6jhT2rUaf9nL3n/HEvY
UR/SdJWnJbOkonqxjOhiW03pzJRZY7mfCEjpUPI4V5NyLomVHQGFb6tsnDms8nI95DB6SRB0
chGvBFCY7Yj6ed5uekMbgSPCqlZ1i2UTgXPqWInWLOOmX7yMnRcV9UXincW4+MNf2PWKqXjJ
O7rq8vfKRN6zSrTkYdadS+HYE60qQi4irawgBn5z6kg6hUr7x7cglixy3lCRvxhs8hcwGmn2
/KszOjzlVO/y8a1TSQZbmk5KmorfHIw77/bIQWUMJGMGcObNDI1NNbVKR8cjKj5vwo/j8Vpb
tzZvJdGFxdl5W1pp7rrj/nzn0lykp1RAIWOFS2UaoCYNZpPbNGRuHWCo0y4zRNcu7xjQLCgC
jX8zgLmnma3uOXDfWKNWDZmjXJ6mMPG7Rl00+VO3xt7cTmVFXAr9/ofkKXuEKE6EIcivWw0k
xM7Z+sORq+SL/bjrb+xw4eL3D26OjxwTBwAA
</encrypted spins>

</Roulette Ride Competition>


Did you see this: "-- Decryption Key for decrypting true results = 47217382?"

When a person starts a competition they would post the full message and erase this "47217382" number. The number is posted later to check to see if anyone is lying. It is kept by the person that started the competition.

So now I have this problem. The competition software has a fair RNG built into it. It creates the number of spins specified by the creator. So some will say that because it is not from real spins it can't be a real test of their system of play. I personally think that fair RNG and real wheel play have the same randomness as their characteristics. But there will always be those that will insist on using real spins. The problem is that real spins give someone the opportunity to cheat. All they need is a string comparison program to sift through all their sources of real spins in order to find that real sequence. I'm suggesting that this method is the only way to prevent cheating.

Any thoughts? No, I will not create software that downloads real spins as they occur. It's too much like asking software to be a security risk. I don't want to deal with any claims that it is hostile software so it won't ever connect to the internet. It runs off line.

I could put 5,000 real spins inside the software and have it use the random function for 5,000 and pick the spin at that number selected, example: 3,557. It would put up the spin at position 3,557 of the 5,000 spin list. It would be a real spin, randomly selected. Would that work?

If so, does anyone have 5,000, 10,000, 50,000 spins that I could insert into my competition software?

MattyMattz

Hey Gizmo,

I look forward to trying out this software.  I do have some spins that you could use... I think about 20,000 live spins (not continuous though, but all from the same wheel).

Cheers,
Matt

gizmotron

Quote from: MattyMattz on May 02, 2009, 07:29:37 PM
Hey Gizmo,

I look forward to trying out this software.  I do have some spins that you could use... I think about 20,000 live spins (not continuous though, but all from the same wheel).

Cheers,
Matt


Matt, that would work fine. Are they line delimited or comma delimited? I can transpose them if they aren't.

But would people trust this method to be random enough?

How do I get them? Are they posted somewhere?

Homeito

Hello,

Gizmotron...

If you want to use more spins I have Wiesbaden Table #3 from 1st of April 2003 to 31st of December 2008.
More than 700,000 spins...

You can have them in any fashion you want.


Best regards
Homeito Bemek

gizmotron

Quote from: Homeito on May 02, 2009, 08:22:50 PM
Hello,

Gizmotron...

If you want to use more spins I have Wiesbaden Table #3 from 1st of April 2003 to 31st of December 2008.
More than 700,000 spins...

You can have them in any fashion you want.


Best regards
Homeito Bemek


Any form is fine, I can format them in a few seconds. How do I get them? Can you email them to me?

Homeito

Hello,

Gizmotron...

I have uploaded a file to the members download section.
The name is WSpins0308.txt.zip

It is a plain-text file where the numbers are comma+space delimited.
The start of the file:

23, 1, 25, 4, 16, 17, 19, 0, 15, 17, 15, 3, 12, 29, 24,

(First char is a space)

There are 707,492 results there...
All spins from Table #3, 01.04.2003 to 31.12.2008.


Best regards,
Homeito Bemek

gizmotron

Homeito,

I got it. It looks like it was a Mac OSX .txt file. It opened fine in Windows. Wow, 2.5 MB.

" 23, 1, 25, 4, 16, 17, 19, 0, 15, 17, 15, 3, 12, 29, 24, 34, 24, ..."

Great. Now I'll add it to the Competition software and use a random(707,492) function to pick from the list a single number for each spin of the competition. It won't work for 00 wheels with 38 slots though. Too bad there isn't a trick for that. I could think up some scheme to add the 00 for when players call for an American wheel I guess. How random would an inserted 00 if there were a reason. I could do a mod(38) so that when any random position is perfectly divisible by 38, as an integer,  then it would kick out a 00. That would be random. It would still get the benefit of selecting a random slot from 707,492. Heck, American wheels aren't fair anyway.

I hope this solves any doubt from anyone saying that it doesn't use real spins. It does it in a way that prevents any cheating. Nobody will know the order of the spins, not even the host that starts any competition, which can be anyone. The decryption key only decrypts the results, so that nobody can cheat. The encryption key for hiding the spins is only known by the sponsor of the competition and is worthless to the sponsor. The encryption method is unique. The bit rate of the encryption, and the type is unknown to anyone but me.

Thank You,

Mark

MattyMattz

Excellent stuff - look forward to testing!

MM

gizmotron

Quote from: MattyMattz on May 04, 2009, 01:41:31 PM
Excellent stuff - look forward to testing!

MM

I'm working on it again today. It shouldn't be too long now.

gizmotron

I've come across a problem.  :diablo: It turns out that anyone can cheat if everyone uses the same spins, even if Victor offered the spins from a server in a timely method. All you need is two computers. You run one computer to see what the numbers are and you run the other one a minute later, or even a few seconds later. The point is that past posting might be a problem. The only fair test is for each person to play their own unique numbers that can't be tampered with. Numbers that are randomly selected from the list of real spins.

So, the competition software will only confirm that the user did not cheat. They would have to show that the confirmation claim was authentic by posting the full report message for their attempt. It would include the randomly created decryption key. It would be impossible to cheat that.

I thought the point was to show if you were a winner or not, or to show just how good you were.  So it would have a start button and an end button. It also needs a table limit. I've seen 50/1000, 100/1000, and 500/5000 setups. I could offer all three. It would put what table limit you used in the encrypted report. It must have a realistic number of spins to play. For instance, 500 spins perhaps. Any thoughts on this? The clock that disables the spin button must still operate properly. It should be fixed perhaps to 1 minute.

So for an example, anyone can run a competition any time they want to. They play until they want to stop. They press the end button and the report is generated. So they post that report. The reports should show how much was won on each spin perhaps. It turns out that people will find a way to cheat. One way to cheat is to only show off your winning plays. You can reset the system clock on your computer so that you could run a bunch of competitions and then report the good ones only.

I have it figured out. The sponsor posts the decryption key with the competition limits when anyone is ready to go. That person will not have time to cheat by posting old attempts. Even though each person gets a unique set of spins they will not be able to post old successes that were run at a different time. That's the solution.

:thumbsup:


1.) 50/1000, 100/1000, and 500/5000 setups/// is this OK with everyone?

2.) 500 spin limit?

3. 1 minute wait settings for next spin?

Any suggestions welcome.

MattyMattz

Looking good Gizmo,

I would suggest a table limit that is used more by the general public around here, like 1-100 (or .10 - 15)... I know it's all the same really, but just an idea.

500 spins would be a good limit I think.

For the spin button, is 1 min the max amount of time you have to spin, or do you have to wait a minute for each spin?  I would think the former would be the best way to go.

MM

gizmotron

Quote from: MattyMattz on May 05, 2009, 11:28:01 AM
Looking good Gizmo,

I would suggest a table limit that is used more by the general public around here, like 1-100 (or .10 - 15)... I know it's all the same really, but just an idea.

I'm thinking 100 for inside and 1000 for outside as units only. That way decimals are easy to extrapolate by anyone. Those are high limits. I wonder if there should be a low limit like 5 on inside and 5 on outside? That's real world for a local casino.


Quote from: MattyMattz on May 05, 2009, 11:28:01 AM
For the spin button, is 1 min the max amount of time you have to spin, or do you have to wait a minute for each spin?  I would think the former would be the best way to go.

MM

The way it works is like this. You spin and the clock starts ticking for one minute. In that one minute the spin button is disabled. You click spin when you are ready, just not before a minute. There are several conveniences to duplicate past bets. This way you can set all the settings for your favorite bets with just one click. The clock on the spin button is to prevent past posting. But with an original set of spins that is no longer a problem. The only issue is being handed the decryption key by someone else. I thought by slowing down a session it would be impossible to run several trials until you got a good one. It's real world to have to wait in a real casino.

Thanks Matty

TwoCatSam

Giz

Don't know if you're still a tad miffed at me or not.  I have no suggestions, but I did want to say I'm reading this and I think you are doing something that will carry the water for years to come.

I, for one, stand in awe of people like you and Tiago2. 

Carry on.......

TwoCat

gizmotron

Quote from: TwoCatSam on May 05, 2009, 06:04:16 PM
Giz

Don't know if you're still a tad miffed at me or not.  I have no suggestions, but I did want to say I'm reading this and I think you are doing something that will carry the water for years to come.

I, for one, stand in awe of people like you and Tiago2. 

Carry on.......

TwoCat

I'm not miffed at all. Life is too short to waste it on any anger. I have no idea what bothered back then. It shouldn't stop us from talking. There are certain things about roulette that go beyond opinion. There are certain things that can't work. This new guy with his 38 spins at 100%. That's got to be baloney. Not because I'm some smart guy or not but that it's completely ridiculous to consider it in the first place. Roulette is a game of random events. There is no system that wins inside of 38 spins 100%. The only conclusion is that it must be a claim of magical thinking. That is common too among gamblers.

Anyway, I'm having to bring it all out of the "Competition" menu and put several parts into two buttons. It will work way simpler now too. I'm building it so that anyone can use it to practice with using the same random selection from thousands of real spins. It's the complete Roulette Ride 1.2 without the charts. Seeing how randomness can't be read anyway.

gizmotron

Well it's done. All I have to do is test it and work out a few things so that it resets itself properly. Then I'll package it in an installer program. I just want to make sure I'm not fixing a lot of things after it goes out to anyone that wants it.

gizmotron

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