the question why I need that ....ok guys I do some research I did download numbers from spielbank but problem is I cant see long set together so I was been given couple thousnts numbes and I was downloaded couple milions numbers ......hah after some time I was regognize that something is wrong then I was jump on RNG.org make generate 1000 numbers just see patern and here we go F...n fishy numbers how do I recognize on begining ???anyone??thnx
I have brought this up before and no, I cant answer you because I dont know. If I listed 200 actuals and 200 RNG numbers, can someone tell me which is which and why? Ken
It's because RNG is based on numbers whereas, the real wheel is based on life...which means?
Mr J
No.
Sam
Mr. J and TCS.
I agree 100% with you guys that one can not determine which is which. So how can one say that online RNG is crooked then.
I see it this way. Remember only my point of view.
1) Both are random right?
2) Both can throw any sequence of numbers, colours, groups or whatever and both do.
3) The thing is what bother me is this. When you are not involved actually playing the specific strings of numbers in other words interacting with the RNG, these numbers will look like any other string of numbers (because random can dish up any sequence).
4) The thing is that if RNG was crooked, it could change and counter to whatever you are doing and easily wipe you out. After this has happened one could take the numbers and look at it and there would be no suspision at all.
Now I even if you had a unlimited BR and you started playing 30 numbers out of 37 and you use some kind of Atilla progression or any other clever progression. Obviously the RNG could not go and spin exactly onthe uncovered 7 numbers the whole time. What you would find is though that these numbers will very quickly come into play. Let's say you need at least 5 out of 6 hits to make profit. Believe me you will get 3-4 out of 6, making you slip away. Ok remove your bet and wait a bit. Guess what the other numbers you covered will come back into play. Now cover them again and the other 7 numbers will start hitting.
Whether people believe this or not, is really up to that person him or herself. Progressions is also a sure way for RNG to wack you hard. I'm convinced RNG can pick up progressions.
Anyway the whole point I was trying to make, was the fact that RNG can easily be crooked and you would never be able to say so from looking at the numbers afterwards.
One more simple example. I tell you you have to guess what number I'm thinking of between 1 and 5. I give you ten guesses. Everytime the number in my head changes for the next guess.But I never even had a number in my head at all. Yet I let you win 2 out of 10. I show you the results afterwards, fabricated. Now some one else comes in and says, well I would of guessed 8 out of 10 with the system I use lookingf at those results.......See what I'm getting at?
Cheers
Jakk
So how can one say that online RNG is crooked then.>>
Its NOT crooked, its just differnent than a real wheel. As it should be.
Pseudo Random = Fake Random
Real Random = Real Random (duh)
Quote from: Mr J on September 21, 2009, 06:29:54 PM
I have brought this up before and no, I cant answer you because I dont know. If I listed 200 actuals and 200 RNG numbers, can someone tell me which is which and why? Ken
Would you mind if I took a gander at this? For the hell of it anyway?
Single zero or double zero actuals won't make a difference.
Ok, single zero wheel. How about 70 numbers? Is that alright? I'll post them in 10 minutes. Ken
27 <<<< Group A..... I'll post the next set. One are REAL spins, one are RNG.
26
9
33
3
26
7
31
0
27
20
11
13
9
22
27
32
10
25
16
14
35
19
28
3
4
28
0
8
36
24
6
14
29
22
0
27
10
21
24
2
18
13
4
31
18
25
24
4
10
6
14
19
32
5
10
33
9
10
10
2
5
13
7
35
13
8
16
32
20
16 <<<< Group B. Any insight as to why one group is RNG and one group is not?
5
20
1
35
15
26
14
12
9
10
32
23
35
17
12
6
30
24
11
35
7
3
36
31
0
19
26
24
7
34
22
4
0
21
24
27
10
6
5
29
19
1
12
28
22
26
2
14
13
14
20
4
31
12
29
30
22
24
15
1
5
10
1
15
4
2
14
32
16
Anyone can take a stab at it. Ken
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but.......
Let's play a game!!
Let's figure out what Davey-Jones is. Darn sure looks like a psychiatrist.
Anyone want to hazard a guess?
Sam
lol, He asked for the challenge, then disappears. Ken
Well... I have boring news. I went through the numbers and checked them through a couple of times. Found nothing of real significance. They both ended on the same playing field after both tests were done. My gut says Group A is real... and Group B is RNG. But I really can't be sure. Thanks for humouring me anyway.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 25, 2009, 12:54:16 AM
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but.......
Let's play a game!!
Let's figure out what Davey-Jones is. Darn sure looks like a psychiatrist.
Anyone want to hazard a guess?
Sam
Are you serious? You don't know who that is? I'm sure Spike knows...
Thanks for your guess. I'll give it another day in case someone else wants to take the challenge. Ken
Its the Amazing Randi, one of my hero's..
I will not take a part of this challange but here is a tought about it.
This is abstract and I try this to see if there is some kind of "bias" or "wheel signature".
Take Spielbank Hamburg files and pick only table 1 with the date as you go.
Use this files as an part of your test.
Take Random.org files and pick the date and use the values 0 to 36.
Use this as an part of your test.
Take RNG files and use them to compare with the above.
Use this files as an part of your test.
When you have an distiribution of numbers you divide them into two columns.
If you have number 23 you let it be.
Then after that you get number 22 you put it to the right.
23
...22
Now you continue to divide the numbers like this as you go along.
When there is an repeat of one number you place it in the same column it has apper in before.
23
...22
1
...2
...2
1
...22
This is how it would look like.
20
35
12
17
18
6
16
17
36
13
16
28
2
29
27
26
34
3
5
6
32
10
3
1
11
35
5
3
20
23
2
27
27
3
29
21
27
16
10
0
18
32
20
6
0
26
5
18
24
7
11
2
15
21
26
31
36
20
11
11
21
3
5
21
26
19
0
29
6
3
22
3
32
5
33
12
31
1
28
4
12
25
11
25
15
28
27
0
4
0
6
22
Make an list over how the left or the right column get overrepresented and the underrepresented with the amount of numbers and explore the concept.
Make an list over how repeats two times or more in the left and right column.
Make an list how it develops series of repeats where you get series above three and how you get series to chop "as three series chop" using one coulmn and bouth.
Lets assume there is an common tendency for 20 numbers to alternate with singles events of series to shape.
Then after this there is some different tendency that will happen.
If you can find any tendency that is not an random behavior you can compare the files and see if there is an change of behavior.
LS
I just want to mention i skip the idea above because i have so much to do with other things.
I don't know if there is some-thing to it i only find the tendency that i mention.
LS
Hi Ken,
I tried a RNG and real wheel numbers test a little while back, Tangram supplied the numbers. I did not do very well.
The method I used will appear crazy, but I have found it can work very well, but sometimes there is what I call a
mirror effect, where for a certain number of spins RNG appear actuals and visa versa. There was a small clue when
I was doing the test which I ignored, but would have given me a better result. The problem is that it needs a
larger sample to stand a better chance of trying to identify which is which.
I will use 'sections' , which are used in the 4Selecta system :
Group A
[table=,]
Result,Expected result
3,32
0,19
11,11*
13,22*
10,14
35,19
28,9
6,23
22,7
21,10
18,8
25,21
6,11
32,6
33,6*
10,10*
7,13
8,19
20,12
[/table]
Group B
[table=,]
Result,Expected result
20,12
15,9
12,13
32,10
17,13
30,9
35,8*
36,10
26,5
34,13
24,11
6,10
19,7
26,9
13,7
4,7
29,7
24,7
5,7
4,8
32,7
[/table]
In Group B there is a fascinating sequence of expected 7's. I would say Group A is actual and Group B, RNG.
Richard
Hi Ken,
I think the first set is L(ive)NG; and the second is RNG.
Hi D-J,
That's one heck of a picture.
The answer..... (dont be mad).... they are both RNG. Ken
Well... that doesn't suprise me.
Once again... I'd like to try compare Real numbers to rngs numbers and do the experiment properly. If you were going to screw around in the first place I wish you wouldn't have posted. I hate it when people waste other people's time like this. I hope you feel clever now...
Serves me right for trying something with a system player...
I needed to make a point and I think I did that? IF IF IF you (or we) could tell the difference between the two....wouldn't the answer be, "they BOTH look like RNG". By giving an answer like a few did, all that happened was guessing. Ken
Hey dumbass... I never said I could tell the difference between the two. All I said was that would like to give it a try.
Anyone else on this forum understand english?
OMG..lol Did Steve send you over here? Ken
You do it to yourself bro...
Well, although I can see your point Mr. J, it does come off a bit jerkish to waste peoples time trying to analyze the data.
Matt
It was for under 18 hours. 3 people I think? Sorry about that. If it was me looking at those numbers. Why guess? I would say "heck if I know". Ken
It's no problem that they are both RNG. Are they both PRNG or TRNG ? It is difficult with a short sample to identify them,
but Group B did indicate strongly PRNG!
Quote from: Mr J on September 25, 2009, 01:23:15 PM
It was for under 18 hours. 3 people I think? Sorry about that. If it was me looking at those numbers. Why guess? I would say "heck if I know". Ken
But a valid question still remains, even though that test was invalid, "Why did the guessers tend to agree?" (I made a point of not reading D-J's picks.)
What was the other guess?
Thank you Mr Chips!!! BTW, they were from random.org. Ken
So then finely im the same point like on begining well...nevermind.Where do i get it some numbers (live real numbers)...thats s the basic problem .Even if i take from online live wheel X numbers i still need another numbers for compare them with others and make my own research bank where i put all data , will say 1000 numbers from one wheel and perfekt numbers bank can be arround 10 000 means 10 diferent wheels.Research with 100 000 numbers in one line..... ya can be usefull for some things but<><>< anyway thank you guys