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Main => General Board => Topic started by: pins on August 17, 2008, 08:22:00 PM

Title: the best system
Post by: pins on August 17, 2008, 08:22:00 PM
the best system i have seen on this board is.  on the dozens.  we will call them  dozens i. 2. 3. wait  till you get five spins in a row with only two of the dozens showing.  then back the dozen that has not shown.  the bet is.1.2.3.4.6.9.13.20.30.45.67. tell me if you have a better system. good punting
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Natural9 on August 18, 2008, 11:23:46 AM
It will fail eventually that session from hell will happen

There is lots going on in here Lankys and Victors Lw method for dozens is one of the best but it is a grind method one unit at a time

Mr Chips is getting some impressive results as well but the one up above is doomed i think

Dozens can sleep for 20 spins

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 18, 2008, 12:13:16 PM
Quote from: pins on August 17, 2008, 08:22:00 PM
the best system I have seen on this board is.  on the dozens.  we will call them  dozens i. 2. 3. wait  till you get five spins in a row with only two of the dozens showing.  then back the dozen that has not shown.  the bet is.1.2.3.4.6.9.13.20.30.45.67. tell me if you have a better system. good punting

Better use on rows . I'm testing a system on rows right now with spins from the test area.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: bjb007 on August 18, 2008, 12:16:45 PM
Rows/Columns will tank faster that dozens.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 18, 2008, 12:20:44 PM
"Rows/Columns will tank faster that dozens."

I've heard this before and would enjoy reading a lively debate on this.

Sam
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: ChickenDinner on August 18, 2008, 12:31:48 PM
Pins, what you think is the 'best system' is simply a disaster waiting to happen. You'd have to be mad to play like that. There's a chance that a dozen can go to sleep for 35 spins or more.

If you're prepared to do the research and testing, there are some great strategies on this site - and it's full of great money management advice too, which is equally important.

CD
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: VLSroulette on August 18, 2008, 12:37:05 PM
Hello Pins, and [smiley=welcome/welcome02.png]

Explosive progression systems are a no-no in my book; better to use staking plans that allow for a slower rising (downside: more hits to recoup).

I know getting all of lost units with only 1 hit is sweet, but dispersion of hits is a killer. I have only been able to use proficiently those systems known like "grinds", all of them have something in common: slower rising of unit amount and they all require more than 1 hit to recoup... This is why they are such a grind! -But hey as long as it works :)

P.S. Precisely that is the best system, the one that works for your own personal actuals and the one you are confident with, the one you have seen rising and know when it is falling to take proper decisions.

Regards.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 18, 2008, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: bjb007 on August 18, 2008, 12:16:45 PM
Rows/Columns will tank faster that dozens.

Right now I'm working on a system which only uses rows, so far testing:

Spins: 674
Wins: 440 (in units)
Loses: 320 (in units)
Total: + 120 (17,8%)
I calculated to make 17%, so far so good.

But still need to do more testing. I had 9 cases in which if it didn't hit I would have to reduce by 80 per lose. So only 2 more loses would have made the total result - 40. But that is not the case.

If I have done enought testing and after 2.000 spins it still is profitable I will post.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Wildcard on August 18, 2008, 06:25:50 PM
 I would recognize your writings anywhere, pins, or should i say zawe49 ??  Welcome here.  ;)

Actually i had been wondering about you since i lost sight of you after VIP´s disapperance.

Nice to have you around. Your systems have always made me think about ways to bet so feel free to keep them coming.

___

  JHM, even if it´s not profitable (which it is :) ), post it anyway - who knows what can emerge from that !!
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 19, 2008, 02:30:41 PM
Oke I will. I'm done testing so far.

This is the system.

You play 2 rows with the martingdale progression, but not double your bets but triple your bets to win back your start bet.

* the first spin you don't bet, let say it hit's 1
* you start playing rows 2 - 35 and 3 - 36
* you keep tripling your bets until it hits, your progression is depending on the length of the session you plan to play.
* If you have lost don't bet until it hits. Than start over.

I've been testing on sessions of 100/100/100/98/100/100/100/100/99/100/100/100/123/387/113/51 = 1871 spins.
Spins are live spins from the Actuals / Permanences (twocatsam and anand).

The longest run was 8 hits in one row.
The most hit after 1 - 2 times.
In total 1212 hits in 1871 spins, this makes 64.77 hits per 100 spins
I calculated 4 progressions

The first progression is the one that should make some cash.
You play a progression of 4 total. The first spin is on the house and than you bet (1/3/9) on the unhit rows/columns.
You will lose 1 turn (1+3+9*2 rows = 26 units loss) in 81 spins (3*3*3*3=81)
You will win 64.77/100*81 = 52.46 per 81 spins
Your profit would be 28.54 = 29 units p. session of 100

With this progression the result was:
Wins: 1212
Losses: 40 x 26 = 1040
Result: +172
Result in %: 9.19 %

Other progressions results.

Progression 5 total 1 spin on house + (1/3/9/27)
Result: +3

Progression 6 total 1 spin on house + (1/3/6/9/27/81)
Result: -724

Progression 7: total 1 spin on house + (1/3/6/9/27/81/243)
Result: - 972

All negative.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 19, 2008, 02:44:51 PM
I am happy to see my scanned numbers are being used!

Thanks J

Sam
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Tucktuckster on August 19, 2008, 04:29:56 PM
i wish i had a proper system.....

i am close to developing some but here is my small parts.

i have played the dozens / rows a lot. i prefer rows because of stake size. you can play on something like dublinbet with 50 cents on a double row or line, so 1euro on a 12. if you use a marty or an aggressive progression you will get the killer run. - i tend to start low and take a small quick win as a bonus since no stress. i wait until 8 or 10 without a show and i normally track hits in last 15 which has to be 3 or less. if 1 or 2, then i may go in after 6 or so.

as to progressions - i tend to bet the 1 euro, 1 euro, 2 euros, 2 euros, 3 euros, 3 euros, 4 euros, 4 euros.

i am against letting it get out of hand cos thats what kills you. it doesnt matter if you end up getting a hit and being down since you can recover the loses over the next spins played. A nightmare such as 12 spins or more before a hit can be recovered to a breakeven session whilst an aggressive progression = loser. with a 250 bank, its easy to make 50u in most sessions like this in an hour or two. when its a bad one, breakeven and walk is fine.

I find john solitude is a steady old one, but i like to keep the sectors above 9. i also tend to leave it for a couple beyond where he said to enter. so if he says go in on 12, i look to enter around 14 and save 2 spins on a lost bank. okay - i dont win as much, but the extra 2 spins are psychologically good since on a loss, you have saved a third of the bank.....

i also play sleepers. after 36 spins i record sleepers. say you have 12. if after 6 spins none of the 12 hit, then i play them.... Winkel has lots of data that shows how many sleepers you get on average after say 40 spins and 50 spins. this seems pretty reliable in that if say after 40 spins you are down to 12 sleepers and after 46 none hit, you will get a hit in 5 spins. pretty easy progression to figure out there without costing much.....

i have also tinkered with last 15 numbers out. wait for the last number out to not be one of the last 15 and play all last 15. pretty rare not to get a hit in around 4 or so spins, but beware, it can happen with all things. likewise - if the last 3 or 4 numbers were in last 15 - then play ones not in last 15. very rare for these to go to 6 in last 15!

One i am looking at currently is using the parachutte. i use a website that gives yopu the sleepers in last 100 spins. seems to me a good option to wait for one of those to wake and use the parachute to make 7u. Since you start on even money -its £5 per u, but 35u as a target on a 180 bank is again cheap....
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 19, 2008, 04:37:50 PM
I use a website that gives yopu the sleepers in last 100 spins

What website would that be, tuck?

Sam
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Tucktuckster on August 19, 2008, 04:50:20 PM
williamhill.com

they have a live section in vegas.

you click on the history and it gives you hits by number for the last 100 spins. so you get the sleepers and you get the hot numbers.

typically there are 1 or 2 sleepers. occasionally none, sometimes 3 or 4 or so.

reliable site and the sort of company in the uk tht wouldnt risk a corruption scandel so probably quite safe (big uk plc)
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 19, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 19, 2008, 02:44:51 PM
I am happy to see my scanned numbers are being used!

Thanks J

Sam

You're welcome. And thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Wildcard on August 20, 2008, 08:51:35 AM

JHM, Thank You for sharing  8)

It seems there might be some potential about your system. Do you think there´s a difference between using ROWs and COLUMNs and why ? And why noy use both at the same time... I would also consider betting only after a row (or column) repeating... It should at least give us a "free spin", resulting of course in less betting opportunities, but inflating the chances of success a (tiny) bit.

Cheers.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Lanky on August 20, 2008, 09:46:38 AM
QuoteOke I will. I'm done testing so far.

This is the system.

You play 2 rows with the martingdale progression, but not double your bets but triple your bets to win back your start bet.

* the first spin you don't bet, let say it hit's 1
* you start playing rows 2 - 35 and 3 - 36
* you keep tripling your bets until it hits, your progression is depending on the length of the session you plan to play.

Hi JHM

Just to make sure I have got this right.
Are you saying that if Column 1 comes.
We then Bet Columns 2 & 3 with a 1 3 9 27 Progression ??

From what I see here if I am right of course you are betting on the JC= Jump the last Column that just Came.
Or in other words you are betting against the same Column repeating.

EG

1 =Bet 2/3 columns
5=W=Bet 1/3 columns
33=W=Bet 1/2 columns

So if I have understood this correctly you are betting against the L in the JC.
EG

1 =Bet 2/3 columns
19=L=Keep betting 2/3 columns
31=L=keep betting 2/3 columns

Am I correct in the way that I think you are Playing Mate ???

Your Friend

Lanky

Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 10:19:45 AM
Quote from: Lanky on August 20, 2008, 09:46:38 AM
QuoteOke I will. I'm done testing so far.

This is the system.

You play 2 rows with the martingdale progression, but not double your bets but triple your bets to win back your start bet.

* the first spin you don't bet, let say it hit's 1
* you start playing rows 2 - 35 and 3 - 36
* you keep tripling your bets until it hits, your progression is depending on the length of the session you plan to play.

Hi JHM

Just to make sure I have got this right.
Are you saying that if Column 1 comes.
We then Bet Columns 2 & 3 with a 1 3 9 27 Progression ??

From what I see here if I am right of course you are betting on the JC= Jump the last Column that just Came.
Or in other words you are betting against the same Column repeating.

EG

1 =Bet 2/3 columns
5=W=Bet 1/3 columns
33=W=Bet 1/2 columns

So if I have understood this correctly you are betting against the L in the JC.
EG

1 =Bet 2/3 columns
19=L=Keep betting 2/3 columns
31=L=keep betting 2/3 columns

Am I correct in the way that I think you are Playing Mate ???

Your Friend

Lanky



You are almost correct. You bet 1 3 9 (than quit). Because I assume you will play sessions of 100 spins. The first spin is free, than you start betting the other columns. (3*3*3*3=81 spins). As you can see in my post before, progression with 1 3 9 27 has only +3 in 1871 spins. With the 1 3 9 it was +172.

I have downloaded new spins from the Actuals / Permanences, and will do some more testing.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 10:25:49 AM
Quote from: Wildcard on August 20, 2008, 08:51:35 AM

JHM, Thank You for sharing  8)

It seems there might be some potential about your system. Do you think there´s a difference between using ROWs and COLUMNs and why ? And why noy use both at the same time... I would also consider betting only after a row (or column) repeating... It should at least give us a "free spin", resulting of course in less betting opportunities, but inflating the chances of success a (tiny) bit.

Cheers.

For columns, i don't know. I haven't tested columns. But it should give the same results in long term.

I don't understand:

''I would also consider betting only after a row (or column) repeating... It should at least give us a "free spin", resulting of course in less betting opportunities, but inflating the chances of success a (tiny) bit.''

Please explain.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 10:47:16 AM
Not being overly picky here, but in all my readings I've never come across "row".  What is a row?

Sam
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Wildcard on August 20, 2008, 10:50:15 AM
QuoteYou play a progression of 4 total. The first spin is on the house and than you bet (1/3/9) on the unhit rows/columns.

I guess I failed to understand the sense of this part when I read it the first time, so nevermind my comment about the repeating row or column, because that´s exactly the same as you are saying, isn´t it ? ?  Correct me if am I wrong.

Lanky, good cobber, this is what I think JHM means:

Let´s talk dozens for arguments sake... say number 7 is spun (dozen 1) ... Now you target dozens 2 and 3.

But he mentions a 4-step progression OF WHICH the first step is virtual play (no bets layed)... then, on the 2nd step of the progression you bet 1 - 1 ...... on the 3rd step, you bet 3 - 3 and finally on the fourth step you bet 9 - 9, for a total of 3 bets on 2 dozens at the same time...

>>> In my opinion, what in fact he is doing is simply waiting for a dozen to repeat, then betting a 3 step progression (since the first step is the repetition of the dozen, so no bets there).


  EXAMPLE:  

  SPUN #    |                                   COMMENT                                               |     BET          

      7        |   dozen 1        (virtual bet on target dozens  2 and 3)        |    no bet     
    29        |   dozen 3        (virtual bet on target dozens  1 and 2)         |   no bet     
    34        |   dozen 3 repeated so we begin actual play                       |   1 - 1 (units placed on dozens 1 and 2)      
    31        |   dozen 3 repeated once more (LOST BET)                        |   3 - 3 (units placed on dozens 1 and 2)      
    30        |   dozen 3 repeated yet again (LOST BET)                          |   9 - 9 (units placed on dozens 1 and 2)
    11        |   dozen 1 (WON BET - virtual bet on target dozens 2 and 3) |  no bet


    If the calculations he made are correct ( I am mathematically challenged ... lol ), this should be a fine system if the darned losing streaks stay far from the player.

[smiley=3D-Smil-gros/36_2_50.gif]


  By the way, JHM, have you considered the "zero" effect on your calculations ?
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 10:47:16 AM
Not being overly picky here, but in all my readings I've never come across "row".  What is a row?

Sam

Nr's
1
4
7
10
13
16
19
22
25
28
31
34

That's a row. There are three row's. 1-34 / 2-35 / 3-36.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
Quote from: Wildcard on August 20, 2008, 10:50:15 AM
QuoteYou play a progression of 4 total. The first spin is on the house and than you bet (1/3/9) on the unhit rows/columns.


  By the way, JHM, have you considered the "zero" effect on your calculations ?

Yes I have, see below:

I tested on 1871 spins and got 1212 hits.

Mathematically seen, you can say 1871 / 37 * 24 = 1213,62.

If you compare the test 1212 hits to the math 1213,62. You see that this is really close.

I have been testing now and had some freaking sessions from hell  :o. Hope to get a lot of hits in the coming numbers :)
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 11:56:53 AM
For dozen, it should be played like this.

Dealers Spins
* 1 (dozen 1)
* We start playing dozen 2 and 3
* 36 (win)
* We bet on dozen 1 and 2
* 34
* We bet again dozen 1 and 2
* 12 (win)
* We bet dozen 2 and 3



Title: Re: the best system
Post by: MattyMattz on August 20, 2008, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 10:47:16 AM
Not being overly picky here, but in all my readings I've never come across "row".  What is a row?

Sam

Sam,
I may be wrong, but I believe row=column...

MM
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 12:26:02 PM
I should think so....

Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Wildcard on August 20, 2008, 12:39:47 PM

Quote from JHM: " I have been testing now and had some freaking sessions from hell  . Hope to get a lot of hits in the coming numbers "

Now, that´s the interesting angle i keep coming to.  Will the system recoup from losses ?

What should we do when we come out negative some 4 or 5 sessions in a row ( "row" as in "sequence"  ;) )  ? 

Should we keep going until further sessions bring us profit, or this really doesn´t apply as we don´t get such amount of negative sessions ?

If i only knew this ...  lol 
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Wildcard on August 20, 2008, 12:39:47 PM

Quote from JHM: " I have been testing now and had some freaking sessions from hell  . Hope to get a lot of hits in the coming numbers "

Now, that´s the interesting angle I keep coming to.  Will the system recoup from losses ?

What should we do when we come out negative some 4 or 5 sessions in a row ( "row" as in "sequence"  ;) )  ? 

Should we keep going until further sessions bring us profit, or this really doesn´t apply as we don´t get such amount of negative sessions ?

If I only knew this ...  lol 

I will answer your question soon. I had sessions with 4-5 losses per 100 spins. And other sessions with 0-1 losts per 100 spins. So I need to complete some more sessions.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 20, 2008, 05:03:51 PM
Oke, done some more testing. Not positive, slightly negative. Total is still positive.

Spins: 2639
Wins: 1737
Loses: 1534
Total: 203+
Profit p. 100 spins: 7.69 (%)

You have to play big money if you want to make some money out of this. I will test some last spins and after 3.000 total I'll decide if the system is profitable.

The spin / profit ratio is to low imo.
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Lanky on August 20, 2008, 07:53:05 PM
Quote>>> In my opinion, what in fact he is doing is simply waiting for a dozen to repeat, then betting a 3 step progression (since the first step is the repetition of the dozen, so no bets there).

@ Wild Hi Mate....No Cobber he is not doing it that way....he is betting that it does not Repeat.
As is seen by His post underneath.



QuoteFor dozen, it should be played like this.

Dealers Spins
* 1 (dozen 1)
* We start playing dozen 2 and 3
* 36 (win)
* We bet on dozen 1 and 2
* 34
* We bet again dozen 1 and 2
* 12 (win)
* We bet dozen 2 and 3

OK so now we have established that this is the same as playing the JD or JC = Jump over the last Dozen or Column that just came.
Or in other words bet against the Last Dozen or column that Just Came.

As it is above it would appear like this in the Lw notations

1-
36-W
34-L
12-W

.......................................................

OK so if it goes

W = You win
................
L
W= You win
.................
L
L
W= you win
....................

L
L
L = You lose the 1x1,3x3,9x9 progression Right JHM ???

After this has happened you start again with the 1,3,9 progression Right ???
...

I am leading up to something here and I hope to be able to be helpful as well.

But first I have to make it crystal clear that we are talking about the same thing.

Your Friend

Lanky
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
I'm with you, Lanky.  I see it.

Waiting...........

Sam
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: JHM on August 21, 2008, 12:21:12 PM
Quote from: Lanky on August 20, 2008, 07:53:05 PM
Quote>>> In my opinion, what in fact he is doing is simply waiting for a dozen to repeat, then betting a 3 step progression (since the first step is the repetition of the dozen, so no bets there).

@ Wild Hi Mate....No Cobber he is not doing it that way....he is betting that it does not Repeat.
As is seen by His post underneath.



QuoteFor dozen, it should be played like this.

Dealers Spins
* 1 (dozen 1)
* We start playing dozen 2 and 3
* 36 (win)
* We bet on dozen 1 and 2
* 34
* We bet again dozen 1 and 2
* 12 (win)
* We bet dozen 2 and 3

OK so now we have established that this is the same as playing the JD or JC = Jump over the last Dozen or Column that just came.
Or in other words bet against the Last Dozen or column that Just Came.

As it is above it would appear like this in the Lw notations

1-
36-W
34-L
12-W

.......................................................

OK so if it goes

W = You win
................
L
W= You win
.................
L
L
W= you win
....................

L
L
L = You lose the 1x1,3x3,9x9 progression Right JHM ???

After this has happened you start again with the 1,3,9 progression Right ???
...

I am leading up to something here and I hope to be able to be helpful as well.

But first I have to make it crystal clear that we are talking about the same thing.

Your Friend

Lanky


That's correct. The first is always on the house and than start the other columns/dozen 1-1, 3-3, 9-9.

As you can see in my last post on page 2, yesterday I had some real bad sessions.

Now the progression is only 6.77 wins p. 100 spins. Only interesting when you play big money. But I will test another couple of 100 spins and see what will come up, and than make a final conclussion.

Keep us posted on the dozen lanky. And don't give up, at least test it for 1.000> spins to get a clear view on this one.

Thank you for your help, we will beat the table one day!

Jur
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: TwoCatSam on August 21, 2008, 12:43:37 PM
Lanky has beaten the roulette table like it was a red-headed stepchild!
Title: Re: the best system
Post by: Wildcard on August 21, 2008, 06:17:38 PM

@ everyone : i am sorry for misleading you, my bad [smiley=4/shy.gif]