If there is an over-pay or a wrong pay-out think twice before you except it.

[lucky_strike]

My experience and knowlegde tells me they don't do that anywhere, one year later.  Non-sense?

Why would i lie about it. Non-sense!

Cheers LS

[GARNabby]

Why would I lie about it. Non-sense!

Cheers LS

Lucky,

Note the '?' mark... perhaps your "source" is exaggerating?  No one has called anyone a liar here, but the "story" is obviously far-fetched.

[lucky_strike]

"exaggerating" well i can ask again but he is not the kind of man who does.

Cheers LS

[Mr J]

"but the "story" is obviously far-fetched." >>> I disagree. How? Why?  Ken

[GARNabby]

"but the "story" is obviously far-fetched." >>> I disagree. How? Why?  Ken

Ken,

You disagree but want more details from me?  I wasn't there.

What... are they going to send the henchmen next, to get their little dispute finally resolved?  Because that's where i think this "story" is headed.

[Davey-Jones]

I'm curious how the outcome would have been had he not taken the bet with a smile on his face. Had he acted ignorant to the whole situation would it have ended up differently? I have been overpaid a number of times and in my early days I used to say something. It wasn't until I ran into a dealer who totally went out of his way to make me lose by sector shooting, under payments, and even going so far as to sweep winning bets. One time it's a mistake, maybe... But 2-3 times in one hour? Come on! This is their job we are talking about.

After that, my outlook changed. Overpayments happen as a result of two mistakes, both the dealer and the Pit don't do their job. Underpayments happen when the player doesn't do his job. I have been overpaid the odd time here or there. The great majority of the time it is because the dealer doesn't know the payout structure. One time I was paid 11:1 on a double street bet instead of the regular 5:1, the kicker is that even the pit boss verified a couple of these overpayments and allowed them. They just don't pay all that close attention at times, so best to act normal and not let them realize what happens. When they underpay you, believe me they act normal! What I did do was tip. And tipped better than I normally would have, and the overpayments kept coming. I left when one of the other players at the table sensed what was going on, and it was a matter of time before the other players would say something or jump on the bandwagon.

Who's fault is it that the dealer hasn't been properly trained? Mine? You can't be serious... That is just as ridiculous as saying a patient is accountable for medical malpractice and not the Doctor.

I can't really speak to your friend's situation without all the facts, and I'm sure there is more to the story. But had he acted ignorant to the fact he was overpaid then he could have sold the story that he didn't realize he was overpaid and the situation would likely have turned out differently. They ask for 100 Euros back? I want to see the tape of me getting overpaid and have them prove it before I give them MY money. Further more I would ask why they didn't resolve this that day, instead of waiting until now after I have spent the money.

Just my take...

[Marven]

Haven't I already replied to this thread?

Anyways, here's my opinion again:

If it's your bet, and you get over-payed, take it.

If it's somebody else's bet, and the dealer pays that bet by mistake, don't take it, you know very well it's not yours.

[VLSroulette]

I believe this is double-posted!...

[VLSroulette]

Okay, merged both threads.

[GARNabby]

I want to see the tape of me getting overpaid and have them prove it before I give them MY money. Further more I would ask why they didn't resolve this that day, instead of waiting until now after I have spent the money.

Sir,

No casino i know of WILL EVER  show ANY of their tapes, except in important criminal trials... and iff (if and only if) required.  And good luck trying to get a justice-of-the-peace to summons those for the purposes of laying criminal charges against them yourself.

Those places are granted "military-installation" like status.  They certainly aren't legally compelled to even bring those to a civil hearing (, via a summons of their representatives).

Such disputes should have been propperly (or not) resolved shortly afterward.  "Tape-checks" are normally reserved for detecting cheaters, though also the latter is preferably done there by eye-witness(es).  When you're playing slots, or bj, and winning a lot over several days/weeks... and you see a couple of "suits with clip-boards", that's what they're doing.

Anyway, their civil right to regain any moneys usually runs out in six months.  (Whether they know or not you.)

[Davey-Jones]

I'm sure there is a statute of limitations when it comes to money taken out of a casino by illegitimate means, and I do agree that a year seems rather odd. My point is... If you walked into a casino and start playing away, and casino security taps you on the shoulder saying... "We overpaid you 19 times last year and have tapes of each overpayment that you knowingly accepted. You owe us $232.74 including the interest. Empty you wallet or you will be banned."
Would you not tell them to F*ck off and show some proof?

How are you supposed to remember an event that happened 1 month let alone a whole stinking year ago? Whether or not they decide to show me the tapes doesn't matter. But what does matter is the fact that I don't have a legal obligation to pay them anything without any proof. Call me paranoid, but I don't exactly trust a casino worker's words any more than I trust the martingale with my life savings. Yes, this would likely get me a ban, but then again they can ban anyone they want for any reason they want. This is their only recourse. All I know is that anytime anyone in particular makes an accusation of any kind and the other person doesn't give in, then it falls sown to the burden of proof. I may lose money from time to time to the casino, but I have yet to lose money to the house simply because they asked/blackmailed me. I'd like to hope that everyone out there isn't that big a sucker.

[GARNabby]

Would you not tell them to F*ck off and show some proof?

Davey-Jones,

I don't know if you'd argree with me on this, but we're definitely by far in the minority.  I can't even recall how many times I've stood up for myself (or an other player) to be only told by the OTHER PLAYERS, "Shut up and sit down... or they won't let you back."  (And again, there's just NO VALUE in the long-run disputing any outcome which IS profitable.)

Once I kept standing all the way to court, and beat "the living sh*t" out of 'em"... when that court date finally came off, they sure consented to judgement fast (, ie, plead no contest in civil court).  But I'm still allowed inside that particular casino, and to play whichever game I choose.  In fact, I think you'd be surprised just how few persons have been banned from any given game in any casino.  (But then again I guess not, if you've noticed all the so-called AP persons on-line everywhere, but nowhere to be found out there in the real casinos.)

And I know of a few other more-simple cases than mine (of cheat-at-play)... one case worth over $40,000 in civil damages regarding a casino which tried to stop a customer from using his food-points with his dinning guests.  (Now I don't know the rules of this forum that well, so perhaps this entry will be deleted only because of the old "sit down and shut up", subjective rule?)

Anyway, I don't know quite as much about the laws surrounding casino-banning, except to write that it is a formal and legal procedure done on the part of a casino, at their expense.  But I strongly suspect that outstanding debts remains a separate legal issue; as does, eg, a restraining order from the premises.

[Davey-Jones]

I do agree that there is a huge misconception out there when it comes to casino banning players. I don't think it happens near as often as many people think. The bans that I have heard about firsthand have been voluntary or as direct result of cheating. And I am quite sure there is the odd case of undesireables loitering and such. I have only heard of winning players being banned on the global forums, which isn't all that damning either. I'm sure if you went on a global rally car forum you'd hear of alot more rollovers than if you just asked people you met if they rolled their cars in the last year.

And yes, sticking up for players and anyone who is currently in the right is never a popular idea when money is involved. And many player do make it sound like your life could be over if the casino bans you. But I have seen quite a few yelling matches, between players and staff, and players and players. The odd time they almost turn physical, (although I have yet to see an actual fight on the casino floor). Funny thing is about these events is they are either de-escalated, or the person is thrown out (Not banned). Next week they are back at their table, sitting beside the person they hated 7 days earlier and you would never know had you not been there. Casinos can be pretty forgiving when you bet lots and lose.

I also agree that I wouldn't risk a ban over 100 bucks if I was sure to make many times more for that particular casino. But for a fellow who loses most of the time, I can see him taking the ban and keeping the $100.

As far as AP players, I have yet to see a single AP player at the casino's I frequent. Either their acts are too good or they just aren't there. And I am looking for them too! All the ex casino staff and even some of the active staff that I have spoken with are all of the belief that the games are completely random and that AP is hardly possible. If the majority of gaming industry feels that then I would imagine AP's getting banned are in extreme cases and are definately not the norm. However, that is strictly my opinion and I have no real evidence to back that up.

P.S. I am excluding card counting in BJ as a form of AP in the previous statement. It is generally accepted that this is possible.

[GARNabby]

P.S. I am excluding card counting in BJ as a form of AP in the previous statement. It is generally accepted that this is possible.

To pick up on that or not?  Oh well, while we're moving ahead, maybe this is a good time to quickly tackle and sum up also that... in my own OPINION, KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE, of course.  (I can call it only the way I see it so far.)

To paraphrase one bj-board post, "Sure there is super money to be made in the casino... but just like outside it, one requires that rare talent which must be honed."  Ya, right.  I'll put my money on any star PhD any day of the week.  There isn't even any comparison in career-values. "Religiously" building message-boards around posts like that is highly-misleading, if not just another type of scam.  Eg, try to post FAIR work which in any way challenges (, more accurately, "corners",) some of those basic "tenets" to find out how long before you're banned.  Which leaves me concluding that some of those boards are more like casino-shills, bordering on their employ, so to speak.

Certainly there are no institutionalized (accredited) schools of blackjack.  (But I'm sure someone will try to point one out... someone always finds something else when I write "certainly".)  It's by no means recognized as a main-stream, or even peripheral career.  And it can be "generally accepted that it is possible" in theory, but what about in practice?  There is well-documented evidence, I suppose, of a few who have made tens of thousands, like Thorp for one.  Now-a-days, with all the counter-measures, I severely doubt even the remaining possible theoretical prospects merit the additional "headaches", training and effort to realize those.

Yes, this very day, and every day, a few young men (with visions of "Blackjack Attack" grandeur in their heads) will arrive in cities like Vegas all around the world... and "under-cover" of course. When they get there, what they find is: lie after lie; often near-empty casinos, but with lots of staff to hurry along and harass the real winners (who can't help but "stick out like a sore thumb"); high cost-of-living; high crime-rates; and long "soup-kitchen" lines.

Almost all of them soon leave "running" back to their old jobs like high-school music teacher... were they still thinking enough to preserve those before they "leapt".

[Davey-Jones]

I agree that counting is much more difficult today than it was decades ago. I'm sure it is still possible but, with the new rules and countermeasures, I see that it is hardly worth the effort for such a small edge. Just my thoughts though.

[Davey-Jones]

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