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DVD's with live spins - for VB ?

Started by Lexxter, October 22, 2009, 04:01:51 PM

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the Bob Gordon spins are just that,  8 dvds with different conditions large ball tilted wheel, small ball tilted wheel, a couple of dvds are spun both clockwise and counterclockwise as in the UK.  and a couple of dvds show a level wheel.  all have different wheel and ball speeds. There are no instructions as to how to predict.

hope this helps, sorry for the late reply



The software could basicly easyli be an advanced excel sheet. What you do is that you type in data like:

1. Dealer
2. Wheel speed
3. Air pressure
4. Reference number
5. Outcome number

After say 30 - 80 spin you go to your car or hotel room and punch the data into  the software and the interface might come out with something like this (Beginning of treacking a Cammegh Connosieur)

Or this

You can then play around with the auto search function to look for your chosen play. Maybe you prefer to play a sector of 5 pockets but you dont wanna play it unless it stands out with more than + 4 standard deviations and is embedded in a 9 number sector with at least +3 SD. So you enter your criteria and if there is such a possibility within the data you have entered, the software will highlight where it is and how many pockets it is away from your reference spot.  It will also tell you at which wheel speed you should play it, because for whatever reason,  the opportunity will not exist at all wheel speeds but the software will tell you which speeds you CAN play.

Second round is to go back into the casino knowing where you will expect the opportunity and what you do now is either play with small stakes or dry track to confirm that the analysis is sound and is not just a extreme fluke.

The software also track biased numbers.

The possibilitys in the software is plenty. You can use it to analyse dealers signature, you just punch in the release number instead of the reference number and the software will do the same again, just analysing a DS. You can track strike diamonds etc. Not all possibilitys is explained in the advanced  book, because they are not a part of the acoustic system, but I suggest you ask laurance he will then guide you. Tracking strike diamonds is basicly not nessecary but it is something you normally do before you decide wether you are gonna attack a specific wheel. Normally you dont wanna hit a wheel where all 8 diamonds are in play.


Many, many thanks all of you ! I will study carefully what Kelly shared here (and in other of his posts related to VB) and will revert soon. . .

Only one question, Kelly (and others, if they can share).  You mentioned Dealer Signature.  If I analyze, let's say, 4. 000 spins (2. 000 clockwise and 2. 000 counterclockwise) - every number has an average of 55-58 possibility to come (2. 000 divided by 37).  So in these 55-58 possibilities that come the next spin after number 4 is spun (as an example) - if I find out that 35-40 of them are in the sector, let's say from 32 to 36 (European wheel) - can this be considered as Dealer Signature ? I mean, next time when I play and number 4 come clockwise, let's say, the next spin clockwise I have, theoretically, more chances to have a 32-36 number coming ? Or Dealer Signature depends also on other issues ?

Thank you


That analyse will be "blind" so to speak. You need more data than just the numbers. You need:

1. Dealer
2. Release number. (The number below the ball when the dealer releases the ball)
3. Wheel speed.
4. Air pressure
5. Outcome number.

And of course seperated in wheel directions. That goes for VB too, never mix clock and anticlockwise spins.

Picking 2000 numbers from wiesbaden on line is DS with blindfold. Searching for biased wheels that way is the same, pretty much blindfolded. First you find the bias, then you confirm it with a number stream.   You MIGHT be lucky to have a small advantage, but the chance that they throw 2 clockwise spins after one another is far too great and it will skew all data after that. The outcome numbers arent always correct either.   Using just the numbers that way is close to a normal roulettsystem as you find them all over the place. You might be able to skip the wheel speed if its too hard to track but the advantage will drop accordingly. But the way you describe dealers signature is pretty common and many people dont  believe in it, for good reasons.  I wish it was that easy, but its a road travelled many times and its a dead end.


Yes, you are right, dealer is the most important - I knew that but forgot. . .  ???

Suppose that we could, in theory, collect 2. 000 clockwise spins from the same dealer (we follow him a lot of time. . . ) - at the same wheel ; and suppose, in theory, that wheel speed and air pressure are rather constant (more or less. . . ).  Why is it so important the release number ? For VB it might be so - but for dealer signature why ? Again, if from 55-58 spins there are 35-40 within the sector 32-36 (after nr 4 is spun), can we consider this a signature of that dealer ?




Release point is not tracked in VB. With VB you pin point and bet the most probable number in 1 spin. In dealers signature you act in a broader and more wide frame. In VB you fish with a harpoon and with DS you fish with a net.

As for the release point i will cut and paste something i wrote earlyer.:

Real DS is based on where the dealer releases the ball and where it ends. If the dealer has a very steady operationel standard his wheel speeds only varys very little. The amount of ball revoloutions also doesnt vary much. If the wheel on top of that has a dominant drop zone,  you will find that randomness to some extent has gone out of the window, because the rotor position when the ball drops will in maybe 5 out of 10 or 20 - 24 times out of 37 have a very tight relationship with the number from where the ball was released.  Simply because the pocket travel rotor wise and ball wise are more or less the same, the end position will also be in the same area.  Thas real DS because it is based on real physics and not the numbers.

A steady dealer might produce data like:
Wheel speed:
70% X 3.0 sec pr rev
15% X 3.05 sec pr rev
15% X  3.1 sec pr rev

Ball revs:
9%  X 11 revoloutions
80% X 12 revoloutions
7% X 13 revoloutions
4% X 14 revoloutions

In 80% of the spins,  where 70% of those will be spun with 3.0 sec, the ball and rotor will travel more or less the same lenght from spin to spin, so the rotor position when the ball drops is by far not random anymore and so will the outcome not be random any more. But you need to know where the rotor startet from (release number for the ball) and measure the pocket distance to the most likely outcome number. And you are correct, it might as well have been letters and not numbers.  The numbers are secondary

I hope you get my drift. A steady dealer is physicly producing more or less similar travel lenghts in ball and rotor travel lenght for the entire spin which means that the rotor position in the end is not random any more and there might be an exploitable difference with basis in the monotome physics and not because of  sleepers or favourits which in the end has a negative expectation. Also, i mentioned wheel speed which will help you save bets where the wheel is either faster or slower than the average you are working with. The rotor travel lenght will not be within the "steady standards" that you have observed by the dealer earlyer.


Wow, Kelly...turns out that DS is somehow different than what I thought...many thanks ! I will look into it carefully and revert...

Regarding release point and VB - this is what I read somewhere, that release point is important. If not, what is important ? Could you please summarize (shortly, because I know you have tens of posts about VB) what is important about VB ? There are so many approaches about VB...one gets confused reading too much. And frankly, you seem the most 'knowledgeable' about this subject...Thank you !



You are right, im wayyyy behind in my emails.   Its hard to give you advice before you know how it works. There are plenty of traps and diffycult points to look out for, but if i give you a trick on how to eliminate 2  possible strike diamonds when there are  3 possible or give you sound advice on frame dragging  you wouldnt know what to make of it.  Laurance is the godfather  of VB and you will never go wrong if you can get your hands on his stuff. Jafco and Bob Gordons methods is also an angle to get insight and knowledge. You will always be able to make money with their methods if you find suitable wheels. 

In some 5  - 10 years time i will drop my own version including.

1. Hardware (i will take a Starburst and a Cammegh Connosieur apart, DVD)
2. Balls, i will show in slow motion and with different tests how different materials react  on impacts, DVD
3. How to beat a tiltet wheel. DVD
4. How to beat a semi tiltet wheel. DVD
5. Frame dragging. DVD
6. How  to learn the wheel layout. Text
7. How to bet without heat. DVD
8. How to get money out of the casino without detection. Text
9. The casino surveillance "to do" list on detecting advantage players and how the cameras are placed. Text + pictures
10. Money management. Text
11. The "build up" when mapping a new wheel and how to play it after the "build up" Semitiltet Starburst DVD

To be continued............


Kelly, very nice of you, many thanks for all your insights. Well, 5-10 years to wait for your ideas...somehow long time ???....

So before learning VB, would you recommend to learn very well the DS (how to spot it and play accordingly) ? It seems somehow easier...Is it somehow profitable if one knows well to apply this ?

Also, about the 'heat' you may attract : is DS less 'dangerous' from this point of view than VB ? And also, from your experience, if one goes to a land-based casino with a bankroll of, let's say, 500 units and leaves with 1.000, once per week (so he doubles it every time) - is this drawing attention and he could have problems in future ? Which is the maximum you could win in addition to your bankroll without drawing attention (in average) ?

Many thanks and best regards !



Wow Kelly, this is going to be hot. Worth the 5-10 years wait.

Save me a copy of everything you will be making.