You decide

[TwoCatSam]

Take a look at these screen shots.  These are paid spins from an RNG casino.  Look to the lower left at bj's screen where he tracks hit numbers.  Do you find way too many numbers went unhit for way too long?

Sam

[Wildcard]

I am not a fan of RNG, so i´m suspicious...

HOWEVER    ... i do have to state that from these images and from my personal experience using a program that helps me to track some aspects of the game, like sleepers and SD it is clear that RNG spins do not produce the same level of randomness we can expect from a real wheel or TRNG spins.

Take the the 3rd image... There´s no way i can concieve that 6 numbers would fail to show for 100 spins simultaneously. (remember the "111 observation" that Victor posted at the forum ? ).

But that´s just me !

[winkel]

Not at all!

its absolutely within the normal statiscal variances.

As I often said: A RNG doesn´t cheat. With the OC´s I´m not sure.
Did you bet on the sleepers? I´m sorry for you
Did you bet on the favourites? Congratulations

br
winkel

[bjb007]

Image 3
Nice four numbers there.  Note the numbers 552 and 589.
The four numbers at the intersection (14,17,20,23) look
like a good chance for some easy cash.

And the last 6 unhit --after 100 spins! Lovely.

The four numbers (15,18,21,24) look good (hasn't hit
in 24 spins) and row 3 hasn't hit in six spins.  Another
great chance there.

[bjb007]

Wildcard
An observation?  What does that mean?
That Victor has never seen anything like
this?

Well, he's seen it now.  So much for his
observation. 

[Wildcard]

bjb007, there´s absolutely no need to bash other people´s opinions or posts the way you did, even more when you adress a post made by the main forum moderator, which you didn´t even bother to search.

If you consider you are right, feel free to elaborate on your point of view in a civilized manner.

I am no saint, but i respect different opinions.

What i was trying to convey was part of the concept Victor was exploring with the ATILA Money Management in mind.

This was the post >>>  nolinks://vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=71.0

I will copy the 111 Observation here:

- 111 Observation: It says in 3 cycles of 37 spins the regular happening is to have every number shown except for 2 or 3 numbers which as the long-term sleepers for the day ( 37 spin in a cycle x 3 = 111 observation). So after the second cycle, eligible numbers are the unhit ones. Ideally if it goes past second cycle, it should be left alone -although I have used the long-sleeping ones with good results (37 x 2 = Spin #74 as signal).

Considering this, it would be extremely hard to believe that 6 numbers could sleep for 100 spins at the same time, but as i said before, i respect different views.

[bjb007]

Wildcard
You quoted an observation as though it was a fact
and expressed surprise at the evidence shown in
the picture.

I don't consider that I am "right" but I am prepared
to accept the evidence provided by TwoCatSam.

As they say "A closed mind is as much use as a closed parachute".

Don't forget we're talking about gambling and random numbers
here so anything is possible.  If you can't accept that there
really is no point in making posts.

[TwoCatSam]

bj said  "Don't forget we're talking about gambling and random numbers here so anything is possible."  Are we talking about random numbers?

Let's say RNG is a fellow named Randy NiceGuy, although he's not so nice as we soon learn.  After I bet, Randy gives the board the once-over and my bankroll the once-over and decides I'm just making too darn much money.  My bets are locked in, so Randy reaches over and places the puck on a number I've not covered.

Here is my thesis and it cannot be proved nor disproved, thus the casinos can do as they wish.  The numbers I have collected while betting real money are indigenous to me and my betting.  Had I been betting another system, the numbers would have been different.  Randy NiceGuy will always place the puck where you aren't.

Igor at DublinBet spins and it's the same for everybody!

This is my third test of RNGs using real money.  I can assure you it will be my last. 

I have watched and studied over 10,000 real spins in the past few years and I've never seen what I saw on this trot. 

Well, I just had to know.......

Sam

[hoper35]

Wise choice, imo, Sam!

[bjb007]

Some (most, all?) online RNGs have an option
to play roulette at a multi-player table or in
a private group.

Seems it would be easy to answer this question
of whether all players get the same numbers by
forming a private group and getting 5,10 people
to join the group and play.

At the same time (this screams "Skype", doesn't it?)
have other players at private wheels and see if the
same numbers come up.

Then we'd know the answer and could stop
this endless speculation.

[TwoCatSam]

OK, that's a thought........

Let's work on it.  I'll look for such a casino. 

Sam

[Wildcard]

 
bjb007, you said   

Wildcard
You quoted an observation as though it was a fact
and expressed surprise at the evidence shown in
the picture.

I didn´t refer to the observation as being a fact, i simply implied that it could support my personal belief that 6 numbers couldn´t sleep for such a large amount of spins.

Expressed surprise ? Yep, sure did. Here´s another quote for you, and this one i consider a fact: RANDOM HAS LIMITS.

Now, as to your proposal, having a group playing RNG multi-player mode would possibly prove the OC is honest (wouldn´t prove RNG is fair, though)

 

[bjb007]

Sam

Try OnlineCasino.com

[bjb007]

Wildcard

Don't know what you would accept as "fair"
in an online casino but then life isn't fair, is it?

"Fair" is so subjective that we'll never agree on
what is fair and what isn't.

What are your conditions for accepting that
an online casino is fair?

[Wildcard]

 bjb007, it´s true, it is subjective, and as you put it, yes, we would never agree upon the definition of "fair".

That being said there´s no need to go through what are the conditions for asserting the online casino´s fairness.

What i´ve been saying is only that I can accept these kind of results from an RNG, but I wouldn´t play RNG spins due to the reasons I exposed before.

Maybe the reasons I don´t trust RNG are the same reasons that lead you to feel confident about using them. And that is fine, I hope you succeed.

I see you know your stuff when it comes to betting opportunities over RNG spins and I hope I can learn from you as I do from others, my parachute is always open.

[Wildcard]

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