Interesting point from the Wiz site

[Mr J]

No, I asked for an OPINION and you (and Bombus) gave me your OPINION, so I cant be pissed. Thanks for your time.

Ken

[System]

Must be honest here. Mr. J, you do seem to have a vendetta against AP. Why not just keep quiet and do what you do. If you are so successful as you claim then why bother with Kelly? One thing I know. There is not one system player I know that is winning in the longrun.

[I have cookies]

Mr J sometimes i wondering if you understand simple principals regarding one wheel and its development during spin after spin.
There is one expression that the wheel has 37 degree of freedom which mean the ball can end up in any pocket.
The conclusion is simple that there is no attractors wish will be in favour except luck and you hit some positive fluctuation.
So no matter wish roulette system you apply it will allways be a losing bet in the long run and there is no progression that can save you as it only delay that will happen sooner or later.

Second to speak of past result with our any measuring using shi, cor, std you would never know if the wheel you play is 1 in 100 being due to bias or not and even worse you have no formula wish dictate what the probability is if what you have is due to random fluctuation or not.
So when you play hot numbers or sleepers you are just among all other average roulette system players and all does system boils down to one simple fact that there is no positive expectation.

[Mr J]

Must be honest here. Mr. J, you do seem to have a vendetta against AP. Why not just keep quiet and do what you do. If you are so successful as you claim then why bother with Kelly? One thing I know. There is not one system player I know that is winning in the longrun.

I dislike AP, no big deal. Its not much different from the AP (cough) crew slamming method threads but I dont hear alot regarding that. As far as Kelly goes. He's a decent guy who CHOSE to respond to my post(s), I did not force him.

I half agree with you and have posted this in the past......Whether I get slammed or not really means nothing. Even the people that agree with me, its not that important. The ONLY important thing to ANY gambler, playing ANY game, your wallet needs to be a bit thicker walking OUT of the casino. That is my MAIN concern, not message boards.

Ken

[Mike]

Wrong, in a *FEW* situations, past numbers are useful. We can do this for months if you want to. So I could ask you......what AP (cough) style of game do you play? Can you post the EVIDENCE that you do 'well' playing it?
Thanks buddy.

Ken

And how exactly could I post the evidence that I do well playing biased wheels? it would be meaningless. The point is, AP is based on physics and so can at least work in PRINCIPLE. For something to work, it has to AT LEAST work in principle. This rules out methods based on stats or ONLY looking at past results because the logic is flawed. If it can't work in principle, it can't work in practice. Like it or not, that's a fact, not an OPINION.

[Mr J]

@I Have Cookies >> You could of saved yourself all that time regarding your post.

Do me a favor, next time say....."Ken you lose at roulette and are a bullsh****r".

Its much quicker, I won't mind and I appreciate your view.

The *ONLY* thing I have ever disliked.....is when someone tells me to PROVE something but THEY dont have to follow the same rules. Other than that, I do 'well' and answer to nobody. You guys are so damn scared of roulette, it kills me.  
 

The MATH experts are TERRIBLE at gambling. All they see are obstacles. You would think they would be the BEST but its quite the opposite.

Ken

[Mr J]

 "so can at least work in PRINCIPLE" >>> Would you say thats the same thing as THEORY?

Ken

[I have cookies]

"Ken you lose at roulette and are a bullsh****r".  Yes that is true - but there is also others who read what i wrote and maybe at least 1 out of 10 starts to wake up from what they are doing.
And i like you are free to write when ever i like to do so.

I feel different about you have to prove anything as it would be worthless and same shit every one post about.
You have nothing that produce any better result then any other roulette system at this site.

Now there is nothing to be afraid of and sure there should be pepole play roulette, as long they don't start to dream about quiting work and play for a living :-)

[Mr J]

Thank you for your opinion and have a great day.

Ken

[Mike]

"so can at least work in PRINCIPLE" >>> Would you say thats the same thing as THEORY?

Ken

I suppose you could say that, but it's not what you want it to be. By 'in principle' I mean that the potential to get an advantage is there. This is the case with Blackjack and Poker and the application of physics to roulette wheels. It's impossible to get an advantage assuming a random wheel (which is what you do) and betting based merely on past results or statistics. There isn't a difference between theory and practice, which is what you'd like to think.

[System]

"Theoretically" someting could be true because of a theory created by someone based on tue principles or laws.

You do post alot of methods or systems Mr. J. Would be interesting (and beneficial) to the rest of us if you could put down your theory about your methods in words. If your theory is wrong in principle then I guess you are wrong. I mean a theory is basically constructing a story, why something should happen, by using relevant laws and assumptions (based on reality). If any weakness is spotted then the theory goes out the window.

Like I have said. I would be interested in your thinking and whether your theories have substance or whether it is dry air. Anyone can post a system or six and say that you should only play it on the upturns and not the drawbacks. Anyone could justify a system to work. What I am interested is more. "Why must a system work?" And that as you have compared it to theory might just be my cuppa tea. So please post your theories why your various systems work. Sure there will be more than one interested party.

[Mike]

Nice post, System. 

AP is based on Physics, the principles of which cannot be denied. What are "methods" based on? the "law" of averages? that's only a popular term for the gambler's fallacy.

Ken's position reminds me of that line in "The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" :

"In cases of major discrepancy, it's always reality that's got it wrong". 

[Nathan Detroit]

"WHY does a system work " should be  of paramount  importance to any player.



Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!

[Mr J]

@System, Mike & Nate >> "So please post your theories why your various systems work"...........I have brought this subject up in the past already. The issue is, its a set-up, thats why I dont attempt it. The anti-method folks are looking for KEY WORDS in the explanation of WHY a method 'should' work. I *NEVER* include those words when I post a method, at least give me that much.

So you want to hear something like........"you see guys, if you bet on xxx, 4 spins after xxx this happens, you'll have a much higher probability of those numbers hitting".

Am I fu***n stupid? Dont disrespect me like that. Snowman was the master at trying to get me to say 'certain' things, it never worked and over time he kind of backed down from it. There is not ONE method posted (from anybody) that an AP (cough) guy is gonna say......."oh that makes perfect sense, I'm gonna start playing that"!!

Quit trying to 'trap' me. Yes, I post a method or two based on SOMETHING, not based on it being a HG because of course there is no such thing. Play it, dont play it, I dont care. At least I have the NUTS to post something. I dont HIDE in waiting so I can attack others.

Ken

[System]

Hi Mr. J,

terribly sorry if you feel it was a trap. The thing is that you have really said nothing in all your posts. The most valuable part was when you asked if principles and theory was the same thing thus implying that your theories were sound. That is why I was delighted when you mentioned theory.

You ask for proof from AP guys but cannot supply your own 'theories' why your systems should work. You say you should not be disrespected. Well I believe nobody should but having said that I believe respect should be earned and not demanded. You mention "I dont HIDE in waiting so I can attack others." Sadly the only attacking seems to be you on guys like Mike and Kelly. What I have seen is that they genuinely want to educate. Seriously, one should listen to all maybe something can be learned. You seem to be more focused on discrediting AP. Sad.

[System]

-