Three days ago I managed to take my BR of $20 to $120...then I did something stupid and started to bet on sleeping D/C with progession of $0.10 chips...and blew my BR to pitty $20...managed to climb to $40 again...but then a strange losing streak came by and started losing like crazy.
I tried stopping and then coming back later but it only went worse and keep hitting losing numbers...seriously, wtf?
I was using Lw's method and I really wonder what the hell happened.
Sorry for making you read this, just wanted to rant and express my anger at this bad run. Now I'm at 0 =/ ffs...I'm not saying the Lw method is losing, but sometimes it's just so damn hard to win, I once were like 3 hours going up and down and ended up in the same starting BR...guess there's still some more learning to do. Any suggestions?
I remember once I played roulette for about 4 hrs. I was making 5 dollar bets on red/back using some odd progression. I won $300.00 and then I lost it all plus another 200.00. That was my worst day in the casino. I was pissed after I lost so much and all I wanted to do was get out of the casino. But I couldn't find the way out. I felt trapped...eventually I got out of there. That was the best thing that ever happened to me because I actually learned a lot about myself and some important aspects of the game.
The most important thing is that you stick with it and learn something from losing. Your anger will only be temporary but the lessons learned from losing will last forever and you will end up making that money up one way or another.
@Just_Gabe
Which system you said you used?Can you give me a link for it I wanna check it!
Edit:
Quote from: John1234 on June 06, 2009, 06:44:15 PM
actually learned a lot about myself and some important aspects of the game.
The most important thing is that you stick with it and learn something from losing. Your anger will only be temporary but the lessons learned from losing will last forever and you will end up making that money up one way or another.
Yes, That's why i stick around here, and read and listen to the masters of this game.I'm sure if i continue this way someday i will become good at roulette :ok:
That system is a joke. Whose guna sell a winning system making them millions.
The only one winning is the system seller.
@Just Gabe: Try keeping a ledger of all your bets and tracking the spins numbers on paper (I.e.)
1. #4
2. #21--Bet 5 units on 1st Dozen
3. #2--(win)
4. #9
5. #36--Bet 5 units on 3rd Dozen
6. #2--(loss)
Every six spins, whether you bet or not, check your winnings. If you make a bet jot it on paper and the result (w/l)
(@ 18 spins, change tables or end session-as a rule)
If you have two sets of overall losses in two six spin periods, end the session, win or lose.
@haribekur:
The system used was Lanky's Lw Method which was originally created by Victor with some tweaks. You can find a lesson about that system on "bet and situational play" section of this forum. Or simply type "lw method" on the search engine.
@jokesonyou123:
Nobody is selling the system I used. In fact, you can find about it totally for free in this forum like I explained to haribekur.
Besides, the argument "if that system really works, why do you sell it if you really can make thousands of dollars?" sound very stupid to me. If I were to find a way to beat roulette, why not sell the idea and make some extra bucks? Just my 2 cents.
Also, many claim that the Lw method is one of the few ways to beat roulette on a consistent way. And that's really true, since I managed to bump my $20 deposit up to $125 in a few days with $1 chip bets. But the stupid me tried to bet on a sleeping colum that didn't f*king come up for about 20 spins and ate my hard earned BR...a mistake I will never make again.
@Proof:
Good idea, actually I never bothered to register my number of wins and losses, just kept spining until I tried at least to even the BR when I was on a losing streak.
And also in Casino Tropez you can't change tables, you can close the program and come back and the numbers spun are still registered. Any sugestion? I once read somewhere that if the casino doesn't reset the register, you should only logout and come back some minutes later.
Just learn from your mistakes. Winning roulette consistently is near impossible.
QuoteBut the stupid me tried to bet on a sleeping colum that didn't f*king come up for about 20 spins and ate my hard earned BR...a mistake I will never make again.
We've all been there. ::) Unfortunately no matter how many times you're told not chase losses you never really take it on board until you suffer the consequences yourself. A good lesson learned and not too expensive. :good:
Your rite Tangram, even tho I lost +$100, I really lost $20 which was the initial deposit...rite now I feel so hopeless...I'll retire for now but will keep testing play money more thoroughly the Lw method and others (clothdog's methods and Winkel's GUT seems kind of appealing).
"...and also in Casino Tropez you can't change tables, you can close the program and come back and the numbers spun are still registered. Any sugestion? I once read somewhere that if the casino doesn't reset the register, you should only logout and come back some minutes later."--Just Gabe
Good suggestion, try Logging out for a few minutes (10-15 min), then come back.
Quote from: Just_Gabe on June 06, 2009, 06:01:56 PM
Three days ago I managed to take my BR of $20 to $120...then I did something stupid and started to bet on sleeping D/C with progession of $0.10 chips...and blew my BR to pitty $20...managed to climb to $40 again...but then a strange losing streak came by and started losing like crazy.
I tried stopping and then coming back later but it only went worse and keep hitting losing numbers...seriously, wtf?
I was using Lw's method and I really wonder what the hell happened.
Sorry for making you read this, just wanted to rant and express my anger at this bad run. Now I'm at 0 =/ ffs...I'm not saying the Lw method is losing, but sometimes it's just so damn hard to win, I once were like 3 hours going up and down and ended up in the same starting BR...guess there's still some more learning to do. Any suggestions?
Yes, these runs are all quite normal so...
Don't get mad, get even.
Seriously, we've all been there mate, and its all been said before.
If you want to play around and have some fun, then don't sweat it. But if you want to approach the game with a professional outlook, then...
DON'T MAKE ANY MUG BETS WHILE YOU ARE ON THE JOB, PERIOD! This is probably
the most important rule to uphold for your professional stability.
In fact, if you do it again, then you should come back and change the thread title to, I'm so f*king stupid >:p
Been playin the LW method also. I also went after the missing colums, as i was playin I noticed that D3 had not showed for 15 spins. Figuring that was way over normal, I started to bet it doubling up as I went. IT WENT ANOTHER 22 SPINS BEFORE HITTING.
Hey Just Gabe, I noticed the algorithm changes every 18 spins, which means it "knows" your current system. About every 18 spins, even betting on red and black to get to the next spin, count it..18 spins, either change systems or end session for a few minutes-even better, if you have an account in another casino, play that one, then come back with a new method.
who 'knows'??!
New method?
u mean u have to play new method every 18 spins?!
u re joking right?!
QuoteIn fact, if you do it again, then you should come back and change the thread title to, I'm so f*king stupid >
Take for granted that I'll do that if I make the same mistake :lol: Also, I'll just try to cool down and get my morale back by testing the method and see what can be improved, and try to get a hold of Lanky's 6-point divisor (I keep reading wonders about how much it helps...) even tho I'm not very much into hunting L's
Btw Proof, how did you found out that the table "learns" or "know" about the system I'm using...? I thought it was a myth...and keep thinking it is ???
Just a myth. huh. I found the 18 spin rule applies to Microgaming and Rival name brand casinos. Vegas Technology and Real Time Gaming I've learned it basically stops winning after spin 54, regardless of what system you use. I don't have access to Playtech being an American resident, but there it is in black and white.
That is such a crock. Why do these casinos need to cheat people? Really, their RNGs are programmed to payout between say 97% and 98.2% of all monies wagered on them over the month. It's a no-lose situation for the casino. If the payout drops too low, it adjusts to pay out more. If the payout rises too high, it adjusts to pay out less. If you're unlucky enough to be playing when the payout is too high, you're going to get caned. It's that simple. Some probably cheat by purposefully paying out less or having pattern recognition software but these are rogue operations and they always get caught and shut down by the authorities. Just don't play at any casinos under dodgy jurisdiction like Costa Rica or North Korea (lol), stick to the big reputable names and you can be ASSURED of a fair game. There is no conspiracy against the player.
Am i seeing well? Fair Play and RNG in the same paragraph. and to rub salt.. ASSURED?!
QuoteThree days ago I managed to take my BR of $20 to $120...then I did something stupid and started to bet on sleeping D/C with progession of $0.10 chips...and blew my BR to pitty $20...managed to climb to $40 again...but then a strange losing streak came by and started losing like crazy.
I tried stopping and then coming back later but it only went worse and keep hitting losing numbers...seriously, wtf?
I was using Lw's method and I really wonder what the hell happened.
QuoteSorry for making you read this, just wanted to rant and express my anger at this bad run. Now I'm at 0 =/ ffs...I'm not saying the Lw method is losing, but sometimes it's just so damn hard to win, I once were like 3 hours going up and down and ended up in the same starting BR...guess there's still some more learning to do. Any suggestions?
Gabe,
The problem is not your lack of discipline. It's your system, and the nature of randomness.
All the discipline in the world combined with a "hit and run strategy" or "exit points" can't turn a losing system into a winning won.
Regards,
Herb /.\
Quote from: rss
Am I seeing well? Fair Play and RNG in the same paragraph. and to rub salt.. ASSURED?!
Are you really so naive?
I take it you're an RNG persistent loser? And that's why you think they're fixed.
Quote from: Herb on June 08, 2009, 04:47:34 PM
Gabe,
The problem is not your lack of discipline. It's your system, and the nature of randomness.
All the discipline in the world combined with a "hit and run strategy" or "exit points" can't turn a losing system into a winning won.
Regards,
Herb /.\
So, you suggest changing system? isn't the Lw method one of the few ways to win in a more consistent basis in roulette? how did Lanky and Victor managed to win so much with it? Do you win consistently with other methods?
I'm all ears.
@Number six: so, basicly the RNG are fair overall just as long as I'm playing with the payout is less in the overall range??? I find it really strange and at the same time amazing..I've seen losing strikes to obscene levels, and suddenly winning strikes to the point of evening out. Is it because what you said about the range of payout? :o
I'm still beginning to think that play at live roulette is safer...any thought? anyone here are RNG's only? or live table only? or both?
Thx for your help!
QuoteSo, you suggest changing system?
If you want to win long term, then you'll have to change. If you're just out for some occasional fun, don't worry about it.
Quoteisn't the Lw method one of the few ways to win in a more consistent basis in roulette?
I'm not knocking the system. It's fun to mess around with it, but it's not going to win in the long run. Rpro75 confused several people when he claimed this was a consistent winner.
Quotehow did Lanky and Victor managed to win so much with it?
Luck
Regards,
Herb /.\
Quotehow did Lanky and Victor managed to win so much with it
According to Herb "luck" is the reason why someone can make long term profits. You can assume then, any system that wins in the
long term under 1 billion spins is just lucky and you can draw your own conclusions, as to the use of the word luck in such circumstances!
Mr Chips
Quote from: Mr Chips on June 09, 2009, 03:27:10 AM
According to Herb "luck" is the reason why someone can make long term profits. You can assume then, any system that wins in the
long term under 1 billion spins is just lucky and you can draw your own conclusions, as to the use of the word luck in such circumstances!
Mr Chips
Yes Mr Chips.
Herbs cry is My way and no other Way.
QuoteBeen playin the LW method also. I also went after the missing colums, as I was playin I noticed that D3 had not showed for 15 spins. Figuring that was way over normal, I started to bet it doubling up as I went. IT WENT ANOTHER 22 SPINS BEFORE HITTING.
Well I thought I was Lucky when I hit the LD 25 out of 29 spins one time back in April 2007.
But that pales in comparison when You can see from the above Quote where the LC hit =Betting Columns 1 & 2.
Hit at least 34 times in a Row.
Just like the Day when I met Moccoman at the Casino when the 3rd dozen missed 22 spins in a row and hit on the 23rd spin.
That's at least 20 W's in a row Lucky I got a few that day as well.
And every Time I played Roulette with Natural9.
I got lucky every single time....
Gees I even taught Rodney how to get Lucky.
As I never saw Him lose either when We played together.
Lanky.
QuoteIf you want to win long term, then you'll have to change. If you're just out for some occasional fun, don't worry about it.
While I want to have fun, my priority is to make profit in a consistent basis. So, what other systems are there that you consider to make good winnings?
And what are your thoughts of this Lanky? do you really think it was pure luck that helped you and Victor win with the Lw method? ???
Do you suggest to change methods or keep studying and making some tweaks?
Any help is appreciated, thanks.
Quote from: Number Six on June 08, 2009, 07:16:09 PM
Are you really so naive?
I take it you're an RNG persistent loser? And that's why you think they're fixed.
Hi Number six, I am not an Rng persistent loser, cos i dont play online. I dont even have an opinion if they are fixed or not. But , judging by what you said, you are contradicting yourself, and thats what i am was refering to.
YOu say: ' stick to the big reputable names and you can be ASSURED of a fair game. There is no conspiracy against the player. '
Yet just before it you wrote: 'It's a no-lose situation for the casino. If the payout drops too low, it adjusts to pay out more. If the payout rises too high, it adjusts to pay out less. If you're unlucky enough to be playing when the payout is too high, you're going to get caned. It's that simple.'
So, If what u are saying is true,and Rng are programmed to payout between say 97% and 98.2% of all monies wagered on them over the month, than that makes the whole thing fixed in my book.
QuoteAre you really so naive?
I take it you're an RNG persistent loser? And that's why you think they're fixed.
Number Six: I have tried both online RNG and live wheel games and I have noticed that when I am using a system, the online game seems to pick up on it every time(and very quickly when I am winning). In the live game luck comes and goes but the system remains valid the entire time of play.
My conclusion is that you cannot win online long term but very short term only.
Quote from: rss
Hi Number six, I am not an Rng persistent loser, cos I dont play online. I dont even have an opinion if they are fixed or not. But , judging by what you said, you are contradicting yourself, and thats what I am was refering to.
YOu say: ' stick to the big reputable names and you can be ASSURED of a fair game. There is no conspiracy against the player. '
Yet just before it you wrote: 'It's a no-lose situation for the casino. If the payout drops too low, it adjusts to pay out more. If the payout rises too high, it adjusts to pay out less. If you're unlucky enough to be playing when the payout is too high, you're going to get caned. It's that simple.'
So, If what u are saying is true,and Rng are programmed to payout between say 97% and 98.2% of all monies wagered on them over the month, than that makes the whole thing fixed in my book.
It's an oxymoron, not a contradiction. What I mean by assured of a fair game is that no serious enterprise such as a big UK sportsbook is going to risk their whole operation to cheat a few punters by having, say, pattern recognition software built into their RNGs. They are audited on a regular basis and if their payouts are crooked, the entire business is closed down. By default the RNG has the vig programmed into it, which means that although the game is fair (the numbers aren't cooked to make you lose), you can never win. It's exactly the same with real wheels. Of course, this is all with systems in mind. That is just how it works. A lot of people say RNGs are fixed, purely because they have lost when 18 reds appeared or 7 hit six times in a row. It's nonsense. No one has any valid proof to back up this ongoing saga. Someone show me evidence that bet365 cheats, then I will retract everything.
@ Just Gabe, If you try a "Live" wheel, so far the only reputable one I can find is Dublinbet. There are a few others, but beware, RNG's are more honest.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on June 09, 2009, 04:53:29 PM
If you try a "Live" wheel, so far the only reputable one I can find is Dublinbet. There are a few others, but beware, RNG's are more honest.
Proofreaders, I'm curious, what is this based on?
Regards,
Vix
Same question as vix. There should be other casinos deemed as having honest live roulette other than dublinbet.
Quote from: Number Six on June 09, 2009, 01:49:34 PM
Of course, this is all with systems in mind. That is just how it works. A lot of people say RNGs are fixed, purely because they have lost when 18 reds appeared or 7 hit six times in a row. It's nonsense. No one has any valid proof to back up this ongoing saga. Someone show me evidence that bet365 cheats, then I will retract everything.
Agreed.
Funny how most people will come up with the most sophisticated conspiracy theories and not simply admit that mechanical systems
cannot beat the game's unfair payout system (i.e. -2.7%).
Regards,
Marven
Quote from: goldfinger on June 09, 2009, 01:04:03 PM
Number Six: I have tried both online RNG and live wheel games and I have noticed that when I am using a system, the online game seems to pick up on it every time(and very quickly when I am winning). In the live game luck comes and goes but the system remains valid the entire time of play.
My conclusion is that you cannot win online long term but very short term only.
I have posted something similar to what I'm about to say somewhere else, but I cannot find the post. So, I'll re-type it...
I am of the opinion that RNG's are just as fair (as long as they are from PlayTech, MicroGaming, Vegas Technology...etc, not a Rogue Casino) as a live wheel.
I think the biggest reason people think that RNG's are rigged, is because they lose more often with an RNG than a Live Wheel. I believe that is true. I'll say that again, I believe MORE people lose to RNG's than live wheels.
But, I DO NOT think it is because they are rigged. I'll explain.
How many systems do we test and find to work fairly well for 100 spins? 200 spins? 300 spins? A lot I'd say. Then we find that they tank. Some of the better systems may stand the test of 1,000 or even 5,000 spins before tanking.
Now, let's look at something that most people seem to completely forget about while playing at an RNG and then saying it is rigged.....
SPINS PER HOUR
At a live wheel you're looking at a MAX of MAYBE 40 spins an hour. So lets say you take that system you've tested in RXtreme that worked for 500 spins and you go and play it at a live wheel for 5 days straight, one hour a day. That's 40 spins a day, 5 days = 200 spins of the wheel.
You've walked away a winner every day. You're thrilled, you think you've found the HG. (I know this feeling as I did it myself at Mohegan Sun...my story ends the same as this explanation will)
So, you're excited and you're thinking, "well, my system is great, has it's ups and downs, but I've always walked away a winner. Why bother going to the casino when I can do this from home online?"
So, you sign up at an online casino (In my case it was Vegas Technology). Now, at Vegas Technology you can do upwards of 3,000 spins an hour. But for this example let's take one of the slower online casinos like BetVoyager.
At BetVoyager you're looking at about 400 to 500 spins an hour if your bet layout isn't complicated and you can place bets quickly.
You now take that same system that worked for you 5 days in a row at a live casino and start playing. But guess what? You only played 200 spins at the live casino over the course of those 5 days. You're about to BURN THROUGH those same 200 spins in a HALF AN HOUR!
So you're left with what? You're system working for maybe the first twenty to thirty minutes and then going down in flames and you're thinking "this thing has some kind of pattern recognition built into it" or "there is somebody on the other end of this computer personally watching me play and win, and they decided that I've won enough" or something else.
But all that has really happened is the house edge caught up to you.
If you guys want an accurate comparison when saying "my system works in a live casino but not online" you absolutely HAVE TO compare SPINS PER HOUR not HOURS PLAYED. They aren't the same.
RNG's aren't rigged. They just allow for faster play.
Quote from: Just_Gabe on June 06, 2009, 06:01:56 PM
Three days ago I managed to take my BR of $20 to $120...then I did something stupid and started to bet on sleeping D/C with progession of $0.10 chips...and blew my BR to pitty $20...managed to climb to $40 again...but then a strange losing streak came by and started losing like crazy.
I tried stopping and then coming back later but it only went worse and keep hitting losing numbers...seriously, wtf?
I was using Lw's method and I really wonder what the hell happened.
Sorry for making you read this, just wanted to rant and express my anger at this bad run. Now I'm at 0 =/ ffs...I'm not saying the Lw method is losing, but sometimes it's just so damn hard to win, I once were like 3 hours going up and down and ended up in the same starting BR...guess there's still some more learning to do. Any suggestions?
Sorry about that rant above Gabe, I just want to say sorry about your loss. That always s*cks.... I hope it to be your last.
RNG's aren't rigged. They just allow for faster play.>>
This would be true if you were playing an RNG. You're not, you're playing a software program. I know this for a fact because I have a consistantly winning system on the EC's and when I play an online casino, it works just like it always does on about the first 30 bets, they it stops working entirely. The computer caught on that I was winning more than losing and it went to a program that is designed to beat me. I can beat RX all day long, I can't last 10min with an online casino. Believe it, don't believe it, its your money. You're problem is, you have nothing reliable to test against. I do.
Don't ask me what my system is, I'm the only one who knows and I'll keep it that way. Don't tell me I'm full of crap, unless you want to sound like the 10,000 posters who have already said it. Yawn.
Quote from: Spike on June 10, 2009, 06:06:35 PM
I can beat RX all day long...
@ Spike.
Do you beat RX with the programs generated numbers, or with imported numbers from say random.org, etc?
"you're playing a software program. I know this for a fact because I have a consistantly winning system on the EC's and when I play an online casino, it works just like it always does on about the first 30 bets, they it stops working entirely." >>> True. I gave up repeating this info over and over. Ken
To my point- Why wouldnt you sell a system?
Just think about it for one second. If you were the only one who knew a system to beat roulette you could surely stay so far under the radar because casino management wouldnt have to worry about winners and wouldn't even notice you.
So if you sell this system like a total idiot then more and more people are going to be using it and casino management can notice much easier when they look at their profits going down.
Selling a winning system (which there aren't any to date) would be like risking an unlimited supply of money (all the casinos) for a "few extra bucks"
Yeah, I'm sure your making MILLIONS and wanting to make a "few extra bucks"
Quote from: Spike on June 10, 2009, 06:06:35 PM
This would be true if you were playing an RNG. You're not, you're playing a software program.
EXACTLY. The difference between both should be acknowledged.
If one is a mechanical system player, then forget it. He wouldn't win consistently from anywhere.
But if one can beat a random number generator (computer RNG, TRNG, actual wheel, etc.) it doesn't mean he can beat online casino RNG's.
In fact, all consistent winners
I know couldn't win consistently from online casino software RNG's (and I'm not saying they couldn't win, I'm saying they couldn't win
consistently). Coincidence?
Here is why big casino names wouldn't be afraid to do that: Because no body can prove it.
If they're doing it then they must be 100% sure no body can prove they are.
You can't prove they're not cheating, but you can prove (to yourself) that they are (just as Spike did), so why take the risk?
Quote from: jokesonyou123 on June 10, 2009, 09:49:57 PM
Selling a winning system (which there aren't any to date) would be like risking an unlimited supply of money (all the casinos) for a "few extra bucks"
Yeah, I'm sure your making MILLIONS and wanting to make a "few extra bucks"
And that is why I find the idea of buying a roulette system to be the most naive and uninformed thing a roulette player can do.
Whenever I hear about someone paying cash for a roulette system, I instantly conclude they have a long, long way to go.
I beat the generated numbers on RX.
I play the LW's at Bet365 on both the live wheel and RNG. When I go down a few units on the live wheel transfer onto the RNG and grind it all back with the faster spins. So far won my money back everytime. I try not to stay on for longer than 50 spins. Just observation regarding the live dealers. . . I notice as sort of a party trick that 80% of the time hit zero neighbours on there last spin. I'm so sure that these girls can hit any sector they wish. They don't have to spin from last winning number on that wheel :nono:
Quote from: Spike
RNG's aren't rigged. They just allow for faster play.>>
This would be true if you were playing an RNG. You're not, you're playing a software program. I know this for a fact because I have a consistantly winning system on the EC's and when I play an online casino, it works just like it always does on about the first 30 bets, they it stops working entirely. The computer caught on that I was winning more than losing and it went to a program that is designed to beat me. I can beat RX all day long, I can't last 10min with an online casino. Believe it, don't believe it, its your money. You're problem is, you have nothing reliable to test against. I do.
Don't ask me what my system is, I'm the only one who knows and I'll keep it that way. Don't tell me I'm full of crap, unless you want to sound like the 10,000 posters who have already said it. Yawn.
Your personal experiences of RNGs prove absolutely nothing. You have no facts. This is the problem. People say things and none of it can be backed up with anything other than a conspiracy theory. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of online casinos or PRNGs. My experiences of them are pretty much the same as everyone else's. I once had great fortune for about 5 months playing a PRNG, but it abruptly ended and I never won a single session again (I consider that winning streak miraculous). Conversely I have witnessed someone win £10,000 on a Playtech RNG in a few hours. He was betting the same 2 numbers on every spin with no progression. If the RNG was rigged, there is simply no way anyone could win that kind of money in one night. I think some are fair and I know others are crooked. That is my opinion based on what I've seen and experienced. If the total payouts are consistently at or around 97.3%, month after month, and this is verified by third-party auditors, how can you prove with concrete FACTS that an online RNG is rigged?
Ok guys, lets assume that RNG's from online softwares being rigged is an irrefutable truth. If that were the case, what do you think would be the best strategy/method/whatever to get around this and keep winning at roulette on RNG?
I'm specially interested in Spike's reply, how do you manage to keep winning? do you bet only 30 times and then wait an certain ammount of time? do you play many casinos one after another?
Did you share the system somewhere?
It's not a system. Spike uses educated guessing based on many years of experience with EC's.
Your personal experiences of RNGs prove absolutely nothing. You have no facts.>>>
Facts enough for me not to waste money on them. What you waste your money on is your business.
So Spike, how do you manage to get around this problem? Or do you play only on live roulette and/or B&M casinos?
Surely the point at issue is not RNGs per se, but the suspicion that the online casino is manipulating the numbers, and if that's true, then there's nothing you can do about, but this has nothing to do with whether RNGs and actuals are significantly different. I defy anyone to identify a stream of RNG decisions from a set from a real wheel.
Is anyone up to it? >:D
Hi Tangram,
An interesting challenge ;)
What did you have in mind?
Mr Chips
Maybe we can prove that somehow.
If you make 1 million spins on RX, you should get a certain distribution among the numbers, columns, streets, etc that almos even.
If you make 1 million spins in the online casino, the same results should be expected.
But if you make 1 million spins blacing bets with a winning system/method/w.e. and the software is rigged, then there should be some unusual distribution among the numbers since random is no longer aplying.
The only problem is betting in 1 million spins non-stop and with real money that eventually could be lost, making this test really difficult to pull off.
@ just_gabe,
Good point, but I was thinking more about using a fair RNG (e.g. numbers from random.org) then there can be no question that they are "rigged" because no-one is putting their money up against them. ;) To say that all online casinos are rigged is simply nonsense in my opinion.
@ Mr Chips,
I was thinking of some kind of test where you would have to pick out the sets of RNG numbers vs actuals. There could be say 1000 numbers altogether, but they would be divided up into 10 groups (100 numbers in each group), some RNG, and some actuals. Actually it might be better to have only one set of RNG numbers and then it would be more impressive if someone were to identify that group, because the odds of randomly picking it would be 10-1 :yahoo: Or maybe Herb could think of a more effective test, except it might run into billions of spins. ;D
This seems to be a topic which comes up again and again, some claim they can tell the difference (which I don't believe), it would be great if it could be finally put to rest with some real evidence.
Tangram,
My preference would be PRNG vs actuals.Yes, 10 groups (100 numbers in each group). Say for example 4 groups of PRNG and 6 groups of actuals.
The idea then is to identify the 4 PRNG groups.
Perhaps you could start a separate thread. It would certainly be interesting, as I have been able to identify PRNG on a number of occasions. I say
a number of occasions, because PRNG will mirror actuals for a certain number of spins and visa versa, so that's when you say there is no difference.
It is however the exception and it should be possible to identify PRNG most of the time.
I think Herb has got 1 billion PRNG stashed away and I am sure he would give us 1000 if we ask him nicely :thumbsup: :smile:
Mr Chips
Mr Chips,
By PRNG do you mean not from random.org? Perhaps if Herb's not available to post the numbers one of the admins or global moderators could do it. I think the testing section would be an appropriate place for the challenge. :thumbsup:
Tangram,
Yes, not TRNG from random.org. Testing section would be ok.
Mr Chips
Quote from: Tangram on June 12, 2009, 09:49:08 AM
Surely the point at issue is not RNGs per se, but the suspicion that the online casino is manipulating the numbers, and if that's true, then there's nothing you can do about, but this has nothing to do with whether RNGs and actuals are significantly different. I defy anyone to identify a stream of RNG decisions from a set from a real wheel.
Is anyone up to it? >:D
Where's Einstein when you need him?
I suspect any difference will evetually make itself evident within the wheel scatter patterns rather than the numbers themselves.
Perhaps a fractals & chaos student could help with this type of analysis.