Laws of roulette

[Lanky]

I am sorry that this has taken so long but I have been Ill and I am sure that You the Forum will Understand the position I have been in.

There are some basic laws you have to account for in designing any system in roulette.

1. House edge exists, like it or not.

Yes Monte there is a house edge.
But it can be drastically Reduced by doing one simple thing.
Lets take the Double Zero wheel for an example.

There are players that Know if you play a certain amount of past spins.
That the 5.26 % is reduced to 1%

Now I am not sure that I have the right to divulge how many past spins do that because this information I think was told to me in confidence.
And the Members here know that I can be trusted with that sort of Thing so You will just have to rely on my good word for the time being until I can check & see If I can reveal the amount of past spins to be played that will cause this to happen.

2. Progressions do not work, they cannot eliminate house edge, therefore they are redundant.

Now if what I said in the above Paragraph (1) above is to be believed.
And believe Me it is a Fact.
Then by adding a slight progression would only increase the chances of Winning.
This is only My opinion.

The Kelly Criterion Betting Plan is the most favoured I do believe.
Better known as the Kelly Betting Plan
And some of these people can bet more in one bet then I win in a Year.

Now I think most people who know me would say that I am proficient with the use of the Divisor Plan.
I can use it from 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10 Divisors >>to whatever I need to do with it.
Its like a tap for me I can turn it on & off any Time I want to.
Eg:
I can Turn it off when the bad times are around &
I can Turn it on when the Dispersion of hits favour Me at the time.
And there has been odd times when I could not win & I simply just left Not winning & sometimes not losing either.

But providing that I have kept my wits about me and not started off with betting too big at the beginning.
In the end I will win.

It might take me 2 or 3 sessions but in the end I will grind out a win.

Last Year on the RR Forum I had the pleasure of doing a test with Ronjo on His Due Group Numbers.

He sent me an Email during the test to tell me he could see that a certain 12 number Group had fallen asleep but He would continue to bet them knowing they would lose so that the Forum could see how powerful the plan was and how quickly the progressive betting plan He was using would recover even under bad times.
He did what he said & it was truly amazing to see exactly what He said unfold before my Eyes.

So No I don't agree with you about progressions being Redundant.
Its knowing when to disable them & if need be take a loss that matters My Friend.

Now Before people Come jumping out of the woodwork.
There are people who I know that do win Flat betting certain numbers.
Ronjo>>He can do Both
Herb
Ray
And it would appear Your good self Monte. Plus more that I have missed putting down here.

They Can all do it but those people are betting certain amount of numbers straight up.......and good on them.

But for us people that mainly bet on 18/19/24 + Numbers it is my belief that we need to play with a slight progression.

3. The results are random in the long run. baised wheels will be fixed, a croupier with a signiture will go home and the guy who owns the RNG wheel will program it to take his money back and yours as well.

About Bias Wheels.This is just not true Mate .
You Might believe it as will others but its not True.

There are & have been in the past Brand New wheels which can be & are Bias.
It don't bother the Casino as long as they are winning with them.
If The casino's are winning they will simply let it go.

There was a well documented event about this in America.
Which was in the Newspapers & even made the Television Years ago.
The particular Casino barred some players for playing a certain wheel.

Thanks to the good information the reporter received.
He chased it up with the Gaming Commission.
The Casino In question was Fined a Hefty sum of money by the Commission & was told to smarten their act up or lose their license.
The said Players were again allowed back in.

About Dealers signatures.

I have made it a practice to study this a lot over the last year.

And as Kimo Li Pointed out in His Global Pie Method.

The Small Black & the Big Red Numbers are to the right of a single Zero wheel.
And
The Small Red & the Big Black Numbers are to the left of Zero.

I have seen one side hit
23 at Dublin bet
19 at Airball
18 at Star City
17 at Video Roulette.

It did not matter if there were dealers or Not.

In fact I have seen Dealer changes & the same side still hit.

Just go to Spielbank And You can see this happen everyday.
Maybe not to the extent I have put here but you will see plenty that you haven't seen before if you have not noticed this in the past.

4. Looking for patterns within randomness as an answer in itself just because you saw them on the side of an Aztec temple is akin to astrology.

Funny That you have said this because Victor once said that the Lw patterns that he plays have probably been there since Roulette began.

I have thought about this a great deal.
And I have to say that I believe That Victor is 100% right.

I don't think that if you take into consideration the following Methods.And the way that people play them.

HERB=Bias+ Visual Ballististics
KIMO LI= The Global Pie Method and all the various ways it can be played.
RONJO= Due Numbers + Visual ballistics
RAY= His own unique way of playing both Live & Rng wheels
VICTOR= The Lw Methods and I mean on any of His Selection Methods.

That we are really discovering anything new that has not been there since Roulette began.

What Might happen is that we may see different patterns that no-one else has seen Yet.
But I would be awfully surprised if they are not part of or are from the same Sectors , Sections , or Methods Used above.

I was present when Victor carved the so called Math experts up about 18 months ago with His Lw Methods on another Forum.
And They Supplied Victor the Numbers.
He did a complete Demolition Job on Them.
To this day They say His methods won't work.

Well I beg to differ.

To My Knowledge Two Cat Sam has never lost with the Lw Method.

To my Knowledge Natural 9 has never lost with it Yet.

I have lost once in 99 sessions.
( And that was my own stupid Fault )
(and to be fair I have broken even 4 times as well)

5. Roulette is about mathematics. Specifically stochcastic probability and distribution. The answer lies within that and how you can manipulate the dataset to potentially predict the outcome above the rate of chance. Not to actually expect to get it right all the time.

Futility is repeating the same thing over and over and getting the same result. All of the solutions I have seen to roulette are variations of the same thing.

This next bit was what I got a bot hot under the collar about.
I have since had second thoughts about it and decided that I may have taken the written words the wrong way.

However I don't know what is wrong about repeating same patterns ??
Its what makes Us the Timeline Players a better then Average chance of winning on those particular Patterns.

We bet when we think the dispersion of numbers from the wheel will favour us.

Take Sam for example.
When he saw the L's starting to form he would simply walk away & let the wheel spin. And when the wheel began to Disperse more W's Then The L's.
Then He would recommence playing them.
Pretty bloody smart is our Samster.

Some 6 months or so ago Victor & I were chatting.
And we discovered that many years ago we both had nearly the same system that we were playing.

Now Isn't that amazing That Two people from the opposite ends of earth had virtually the same system.That they Could get to work.

To this day people will not believe it works.....But it does.

And I will tell you the reasons why or what we had in common.

1)      We both had nearly the same system (I may have waited one more spin before I bet )


2)      We both had a slight progression that worked even though they were different they both worked in the same manner. They both could be made to bet Higher or Lower Units depending on the dispersion of hits the wheel was giving at the time.

3)      We both knew when to Disable both the Betting Plan & the Selection Method. And when to restart the both of them either separately or together.

Your Friend.

Lanky

[rob567]

Lanky, nice to hear from you again. Hope you  are doing well in your recovery

Now for our discussion. Where to start? At the beginning I suppose.

(all text within quotes are from Lanky unless otherwise noted)

In reference to #1 (house edge)

[ch8220]There are players that Know if you play a certain amount of past spins.
That the 5.26 % is reduced to 1%[ch8221]

Not true. The house edge remains in this case 5.26% inside any inclusive dataset. Your potential to win may change through incorporation of spins into the dataset that you have not bet on on bets designed to cancel themselves out. This I have never argued against, in fact it is what I base my own work on.

As for the I have information that I cannot divulge, I will leave that alone much as I do flat earth and alien theories. If you should get permission from whomever, please supply me with the mathematical formulas that actually creates this reduction to 1% and we will discuss it then.

In reference to #2

[ch8220]Now if what I said in the above Paragraph (1) above is to be believed.
And believe Me it is a Fact.
Then by adding a slight progression would only increase the chances of Winning.  
This is only My opinion.[ch8221]

Not true. Progression doesn't change the odds. It only delays the occurrences of loss. But in doing so it loses in a mathematically balanced way. Only a progression that eliminates the ultimate stochastic event of loss would overcome this.

[ch8220]The Kelly Criterion Betting Plan is the most favored I do believe.
Better known as the Kelly Betting Plan[ch8221]

From what I understand (all of this paragraph) this is a mathematically based system of bankroll management based on  logarithmic principles of growth. Its not a progression theory in itself but rather a method of sizing your bets related to odds of success and table odds. It may provide you with what looks like a progression but is not. It increases the size of your bet because your bankroll has grown or the odds change. It is not used as a method of recovering losses. I can see how this would be used in a dynamic odds system like blackjack but not really so much in roulette. Since it is based on math I will look into it a bit more and get back to you..

[ch8220]I can Turn it off when the bad times are around &
I can Turn it on when the Dispersion of hits favor Me at the time.
And there has been odd times when I could not win & I simply just left Not winning & sometimes not losing either.[ch8221]

I don't disagree with this, I have said so much before. When to bet and not to bet is the key in roulette. But you have to include the numbers not bet into the dataset and mathematics of the system otherwise they don't count in the long run due to the laws of large numbers and infinity.

[ch8220]He sent me an Email during the test to tell me he could see that a certain 12 number Group had fallen asleep but He would continue to bet them knowing they would lose so that the Forum could see how powerful the plan was and how quickly the progressive betting plan He was using would recover even under bad times.
He did what he said & it was truly amazing to see exactly what He said unfold before my Eyes.[ch8221]

I will take this to be part of the above secret theory of prior numbers. I would guess that 40 numbers would be about right to do this. It would allow you to check the law of thirds against distribution. Then throw out the first 15 or so and wait for the dataset to return to 40 numbers. Analyze the numbers again then cross reference to the first set. Any numbers remaining outside one standard deviation would be due. With a computer in front of me it wouldn't be hard to do. Problem is starting the computer at the casino.

In reference to #3

[ch8220]There are & have been in the past Brand New wheels which can be & are Bias.
It don[ch8217]t bother the Casino as long as they are winning with them.
If The casino[ch8217]s are winning they will simply let it go.[ch8221]

Minimum dataset to even begin to state this would be in the 5000 range. 5000/30 spins per hour = 166.7 hours. If you spend 3 hours per night 5 nights per week at the casino then it would take you about 11 weeks to decide if it even was biased. By then the casino would have you marked out for your great run on the bank.

[ch8220]There was a well documented event about this in America.
Which was in the Newspapers & even made the Television Years ago.
The particular Casino barred some players for playing a certain wheel.

Thanks to the good information the reporter received.
He chased it up with the Gaming Commission.
The Casino In question was Fined a Hefty sum of money by the Commission & was told to smarten their act up or lose their license.
The said Players were again allowed back in.[ch8221]

Since it was so well reported could you do me the favor and provide a reference to this.

[ch8220]I have seen one side hit  
23 at Dublin bet
19 at Airball
18 at Star City
17 at Video Roulette.[ch8221]

The lower three are within statistical odd on any table over a years play assuming 30 spins per hour 24 hours a day. The Dublin Bet is a bit higher 1 in 4 million or once every 15 years per table. Rare yes, impossible no.

[ch8220]Just go to Spielbank And You can see this happen everyday.
Maybe not to the extent I have put here but you will see plenty that you haven[ch8217]t seen before if you have not noticed this in the past.[ch8221]

My point exactly. What do you think they do with these numbers? They use them to make sure the tables are unbiased. They post them because they know it doesn't matter because the tables are unbiased.. Hell you shouldn't be able to find a spot to play there for all the punters with their failure proof bias systems. They are still in business and they made a lot of money last year and every year.

In reference to #4

[ch8220]Funny That you have said this because Victor once said that the Lw patterns that he plays have probably been there since Roulette began.[ch8221]

Of course they have always been there and the planet has been around since before humans discovered it. Lw patterns are a byproduct of the game. Pascal didn't sit there and decide to include Lw patterns in exchange for something else.

[ch8220]I don[ch8217]t think that if you take into consideration the following Methods.And the way that people play them.

HERB=Bias+ Visual Ballististics
KIMO LI= The Global Pie Method and all the various ways it can be played.
RONJO= Due Numbers + Visual ballistics
RAY= His own unique way of playing both Live & Rng wheels
VICTOR= The Lw Methods and I mean on any of His Selection Methods.

That we are really discovering anything new that has not been there since Roulette began.[ch8221]

There something I agree with. Casinos are still making money from roulette and the day they don't they will burn all those tables. A bunch of small time punters are not a threat to them until they can prove that it works. That is what the math is for, proof.

Tell me Lanky have you quit your job and moved into a million dollar mansion with a yacht off the oceanside view and a fleet of Ferrari's in the garage. If your system works it works in small numbers then it works in proportionally larger numbers. I don't know what the table limits are in whatever casino you play. But planes will take you to Speilbank, Atlantic City and Monte Carlo. They have much higher table limits and will even raise them on request. So mortgage the house, kennel the dog and get to a high roller table. If you made 10000 last year on 100 max tables with your system then you stand to make one million in Monte Carlo.

As for the above systems, only Victors show promise. I wouldn't do it his way though, Fold the permutations over on themselves to multiply the dataset  for cross reference. The shallowness of modulation should allow you to bet both directions through inversion of the bet criteria.

[ch8220]I was present when Victor carved the so called Math experts up about 18 months ago with His Lw Methods on another Forum.
And They Supplied Victor the Numbers.
He did a complete Demolition Job on Them.
To this day They say His methods won[ch8217]t work.[ch8221]

Could you or Victor please supply me with a link to the above discussion so that I may read it myself.

In reference to #5

[ch8220]However I don[ch8217]t know what is wrong about repeating same patterns ??[ch8221]

My comment is about generally variations of the same system. If the first 200 variations didn't work it is quite unlikely that #201 will. Try thinking outside the box. 250 plus years of searching for the magic pattern that will make chaos readable hasn't worked. If RRBRBR doesn't work than the other 720 permutations based on a arrangement of EC outcomes probably won't either.

Monte Carlo


 

[Lanky]

Hi Monte

Tell me Lucky have you quit your job and moved into a million dollar mansion with a yacht off the oceanside view and a fleet of Ferrari's in the garage. If your system works it works in small numbers then it works in proportionally larger numbers. I don't know what the table limits are in whatever casino you play. But planes will take you to Speilbank, Atlantic City and Monte Carlo. They have much higher table limits and will even raise them on request. So mortgage the house, kennel the dog and get to a high roller table. If you made 10000 last year on 100 max tables with your system then you stand to make one million in Monte Carlo.  

Mate I think You Have me Lanky Mixed Up with Lucky.

And due to My health I am about to lose My Job.....Not Quit it

I have never ever professed to being a big better at Roulette.
Quite the Opposite.
I started 14 months ago using Victor's Lw Methods & I tweaked them along the way to suit me.
I started with a $2000 bank
And set out to prove that it would work by trying to win 2.5% or 50 units on average as I went.
In That time the bank has grown to $9006 =$7006 profit.
That is a lot of Money to me Monte.
It Might be a laughable amout to You...But to me its a lot.
I don't put this here to show how clever I am Monte I put it here so that it would would encourage other small betters like me that it can be done.
With plenty of Luck & a lot of Patience.
I will send You a Report that I did at the end of last year By Pm its here on the Forum somewhere.
Maybe Victor can give you the Link to it.( I am Hopeless with Computers)

I will also send you the other information that you requested as it becomes available.

Now Previously You accused me being aggressive with my Replies.

I think the reply Quoted from you.
Is you being the aggressive one and that just fine with me mate.

I think that you are a self Opinionated Big Head who has tried to belittle Me.
You have made out that either I am a Liar or At the very best fanciful with what I say.

I don't have to prove a Bloody Thing To You Mate I have met two People & played Roulette with One of the Members from this Forum on a Few Occasions.

There have been Many Many People from the Forums That I have & still do help to the best of my ability.
I have gone to spielbank and tested & tested with some of those people. I still do.

Tell me Monte what have you brought to the Forum here ??
Show me where there is an easy explained way that You Play with easy to follow examples ??.

Instead of trying to Drag people down with You smart Arse attitude.
Why don't you ask Victor to Give you your own section where you can reveal all and by doing so making us The People of this Forum all better Players ?

I don't think You will mate....I think that would be beneath You....
Monte you Can take Your Holier then Thou Attitude & Shove It Mate.

As Far as You and I are Concerned We Are Done.
I Don't want anything to do with You or anything You say in the Future.

Ps
The report as promised will follow this post.

Lanky

[Lanky]

 Friendly Talk / General Board / Lanky's Big Thank-You To everyone on: 12/30/07 at 14:35:42
Hi Forum.  I would like to dedicate this report to You The Family Here at the Forum.   The Wonderful, Caring ,Supportive And Sharing People of this Forum.  Every time Nancy & I was Sick....You Cared & Prayed For Us.  Every time I Lost.....You supported Me.  It was Truly Amazing the amount of  Posts , PMs & Emails That We got when any of these things happened to Me/Us.  What is even more Amazing is that We All come from different parts of the world.  And We are all Better People for the Sharing Attitude that exists in this Forum.  We don't stop people from referring to Other Forums.  And I have yet to see or hear of a post that has been Deleted by Victor.   I trust that I have been to You.....What You have been to Me.  I have done My best for You when Health allowed Me to.  And I Apologise to those People Who had to wait for Me to get back to them when I have been Sick......sometimes the Old Ticker (Heart) is not the best.  There are too many to thank Individually so don't get Cranky with Lanky.  If Your name is no mentioned. I am Sure You all understand.  To Victor & Family..... For Teaching Me the Lw Methods and for being the great Person that He Is.And also to His lovely Wife for Allowing Him the time He spends on Here.   To Ronjo , Alice & Family..... For teaching Me His Methods Ronjo & I have become good Mates He is a straight shooter & I love that.  To Digf for flying to Sydney & meeting with Nancy & Me. That was an experience that we will never forget (Love to Joyce Cobber)  To Lohnro ,Wife & Family...He really stepped up to the plate as Moderator. For his Sharing & willingness to Give & Help Others.  There is a chance that Lohnro & I will be meeting on 30th January. Good On Ya Mate.  To Cps10  For laughing at My Humour ...He was the only one..LOL.. Good on Ya Cobber.  To Maltezan. For Simply being one of the most Helpful , Caring & Honest People I have ever had the pleasure to Meet. Good On Ya Malty.  Ok Now on the Victor.s Lw Method.  I played 79 sessions since April..  Lost 1 -$200 (My Stupid Fault not the Systems) Broke even 4 times. & Won 74 sessions  I started with a $2000 Bank Its Now $6123  I won $4123  That's 206.15% profit on starting Bank  Nancy & I will be forever grateful to You Victor. Thanks Mate.  Outside of this I had another 2 losses doing other things -$550 -$200 ............. -$750 However using Ronjo's Methods & a touch of Me & John Solitude Mixed In . I won .  $1869-$750 =$1119 Profit.   Thanks Ronjo ....You're a beauty Mate.We are Grateful to You too Cobber.  So adding the year up its  $4123 =From the Lw Method of Victor's $1119=From Ronjo's .................. $5242=Profit = 262.1% Profit on Starting Bank.=$101 per week.  We are very pleased with this amount as I work...& have not been able to get there every week due to Health reasons.  Please understand I did not put this here to show you how clever I am. Or what a smart arse I can be. Actually this will be the last time that I do this.  I Put it here for all us Little Betters....The Battlers. The people that can only afford to Bet Small. In the hope that someone , anyone, would take heart from it & see that it can be done with heaps of patience of trying to get the Timeline right of when to bet. That gives us the best chance of winning. From the dispersions of numbers that the Roulette Wheel gives us.  That we have built this Amount from the ground up....by winning Little amounts....that add up To Bigger amounts at the end of the year.  Sure I know that we have had to Pay the expenses. Petrol & Toll fees ,Food etc. We even gave our children $1000 out of it  But Roulette has paid for all of that.  Thanks to Victor & Ronjo.  Well Guys We hope that someone will get some benefit from this.  And as Ray  Said in His Pm to Me..There will be no mistakes in 2008...Thanks Ray  And Nancy I Hope that you all have a great New Year in 2008.  And I hope that GOD Grants Me His Grace  To be here with You for another year at least.... You People Inspire Us Both.  And Lastly To  My Beautiful , Gorgeous ,Loving & Understanding Wife . Who Looks after Me & Helps & Makes this all possible.......  Thank You Sweetheart You are the Best Mate.      Lanky

[rob567]

My apologies Lanky if you feel that I have belittled you. That was not the intent and nearly all my words are dry and without personal context. Except for the above quoted passage. In that I wished only to illustrate the point that if the system you use works then there is no excuse not to apply it to the maximum potential.

You initially chose to take apart my arguement line by line. I have only been defending my position in the arguement. You have chosen to use a lot of creative writing embelishments to illustrate your point in manner that I could easily find personally offensive. But, I know that you don't mean it personally and are doing it in the spirit of the arguement. So i take no offence.

Your track record in roulette of $2000 to $9000 in one year is very impressive and better than 99% of the punters out there. Congradulations. I don't know how much table time you invested but the simple fact you still have money does say something.

I am here to work out ideas in solving the problem of roulette. To do that you present ideas, take on arguements and defend your position until proven wrong or right. It's not personal, it's academic.

I hope you can accept my apology. Best wishes for your health and future job prospects.

Monte Carlo

[Lanky]

Hi Monte.

No Problems Mate.

We are Sweet ( Aussie for Good).

Lets put it behind us and get on with trying to help others (and Ourselves )the best we can.

I believe Out Of every Argument comes some good.

Either you Respect the other persons point of View or You don't talk.

Its good that we remain Friends.And try & be a benefit to the Forum.

Even if we don't agree on some things.

Thanks Monte

Lanky

[TwoCatSam]

Hey guys...........

Welcome back to the fray, Lanky.  

Gotta say I believe Lanky.  He has helped me understand the Lw process with great patience.  If he says he won a buck, he won it.

Now as to MC......

This guy is making me think.  He may very well be onto something; don't know, can't say, but I am (almost) convinced the 2.7% advantage of the house can be increased.  Possibly it can also be decreased as Lanky says.

This forum and these positions make a person think.  That in itself has great value as it exercises the brain.

Lanky is right about one thing:  I won money using the Lw system on dozens and columns.  As long as I did the absolutely boring, repetitious work of figuring and betting, I won.  Then I started gambling........

Well, enough said.

Sam

[rob567]

Kimo Li

Math is not the skirt that I hide beneath, but the ground upon which I stand.

Do I wish to discredit roulette with math?

No. In fact I know that you can beat roulette with math. With a computer and some coding it is not hard to gain a serious advantage over the house. But doing that in a casino is much more tricky.

Now I have thick skin and don't take things personally but I also don't take demands either. If the price of admission to your club is to hand over years of work then I politely decline. I have lots of things to do with my time. On the other hand if you want some direction in looking at this problem from a different angle that may actually produce serious results than I am willing to give you my time and guidance for free.

Monte Carlo

[Herb]

No. In fact I know that you can beat roulette with math. With a computer and some coding it is not hard to gain a serious advantage over the house. But doing that in a casino is much more tricky.

M. Carlo,  

Are implying that's it's possible to beat the random game of roulette, or are you referring to beating the gaming device?

-Herb

[rob567]

Herb

I am uncertain of your differentiation between the two.

I am refering to the game of roulette. As in you the player winning against the casino. Provided that the wheel is physical and not RNG.

Monte Carlo

[TwoCatSam]

Well, this ought to get interesting............

[Herb]

When you refer to beating the game with math, are you referring to exploiting biased wheels or visual ballistics?

[rob567]

Herb

If you definition of a biased wheel is a poorly maintained, unlevel or otherwise physically defective wheel exhibiting a non random dataset then the answer is neither.

Monte Carlo

[Herb]

Let me get this straight then,  you are implying that you have found to beat the random game of roulette?

Does you system have anything to do with dealer's signature, and approximately how many numbers do you bet on average each spin?

[bloomone2002]

I think I know where MC is going here. Be nice because he has a fresh approach. I dont believe his system is based upon dealers signature and the amount of numbers is dependent upon the users selection criteria, so it can vary. Basically their are multiple ways of formulating the criteria from within the mathematical construct. How did I do MC.
If one applied a Neural Net, to this they could potentially win the vast majority of your spins flatbetting, theoretically. Talk about exploiting, that would be exploitation. However, manually it can still be done, just requires a little extra focus.
Bloom

[bloomone2002]

-