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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 04, 2009, 01:02:37 PM
Sorry that was hard for me to explain.

Do not worry about that for now. The whole thing was just an Idea that I tested. The difference of two rule needs some work and I need to look at it better to be able to explain it better. As for now I am going to be testing what Natural 9 has posted. The whole idea that I posted probably needs some work, I was just trying to figure out if there is a reason why the basics of it is working.

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 04, 2009, 01:19:20 PM
Natural 9-
I'm confused about this: Do you only do this during the recovery? Or do you do this after you recover as well? If you play it after the recovery then what do u do if you lose? Do you just accept the loss?

I have one more tweak I think is worth a think about you are in recovery mode this happnens PPPPPPPP after the third P you have recovered I believe you should again play along with the shoe to the streak ends you may catch lot more extra units that way also this scenario BPBPBPBPB play along with the chops I hav e seen it happen many times on the bac table do it expecially when you near your win goal or about to exit the shoe I have seen it alot in testing I have looked over 25 shoes and results have been very positive specially using exclusion rule and even without it


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Natural9

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 01:23:35 AM
Yes a lot of the time you can win by flat betting  and recover too but of course there is always that difficult shoe so using a mild progression would help you to recover quicker do some tests yourself john and you may see what I mean

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 01:32:59 AM
Yes a lot of the time you can win by flat betting  and recover too but of course there is always that difficult shoe so using a mild progression would help you to recover quicker do some tests yourself john and you may see what I mean

Ok thanks. I am sticking with the same progression and testing is good good so far. I am only 7 shoes in. I haven't been using the tweak because I just do not understand when to play it and what to do if I do not win that bet.

Also, before I begin to play the capping bets I have been waiting for two instances

Either BBPP or BB P BB P then I go into capping with recovery. I don't think I am playing this the way you suggested. I don't know why I am having so much trouble understanding something so simple...But what I think you are saying is to play the capping as soon as I see the two of the same outcome?

Could you please provide a longer example? Thank you

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Natural9

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 01:37:47 AM
Ok thanks. I am sticking with the same progression and testing is good good so far. I am only 7 shoes in. I haven't been using the tweak because I just do not understand when to play it and what to do if I do not win that bet.

Also, before I begin to play the capping bets I have been waiting for two instances

Either BBPP or BB P BB P then I go into capping with recovery. I don't think I am playing this the way you suggested. I don't know why I am having so much trouble understanding something so simple...

Could you please provide a longer example? Thank you

Tweak is easy to use

As soon as you see scenario like this
B
P
P
B
B you now bet the twos
B you lose now bet as per normal would be B

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 01:47:08 AM
ok thanks. I think i get it.

I also just tried your tweak as far as betting after the 3 of the same outcome and the bet on the chops. I just played the first shoe and made 16 units. My only question is when you do begin to bet after seeing a zig zag. In the shoe that I played I watied to see PBP then I would bet the zig zag.

Also I would play a mild progression until I get around 7 units. After that I would switch to flat betting. If I fell below 5 units then I would kick back into the mild progression but this didn't even happen.

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Natural9

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 01:54:52 AM
ok thanks. I think I get it.

I also just tried your tweak as far as betting after the 3 of the same outcome and the bet on the chops. I just played the first shoe and made 16 units. My only question is when you do begin to bet after seeing a zig zag. In the shoe that I played I watied to see PBP then I would bet the zig zag.

Also I would play a mild progression until I get around 7 units. After that I would switch to flat betting. If I fell below 5 units then I would kick back into the mild progression but this didn't even happen.

No I would play your normal capping rules which seem to work well and the recovery which seems to work well also the only time i would play an extended chop or streaks is when you are close to your win goal or if you get the feel of the shoe like if it is continually streaking or chopping even then I would just wait to next opportunity
 think your bet selection is quite good and why ruin it by playing more hope this helps

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 02:03:15 AM
Ok thanks...Now I understand what you are saying to do.

I will begin a test tomorrow based on your improvements to the idea now that I know exactly what you are doing. Thanks for answering all of my questions.


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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 02:27:03 PM
I don't think my idea of the delayed progression is a great idea anymore. Because if the method will work flat betting then all you need is a slight progression then go back to 1 unit bets after recovered. The delayed progression doesn't really reset to 1 unit bets. So if you get to the 6 unit bet and you hit a losing streak then it could really hurt your bankroll... So I will look into a few different progressions.

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 02:31:48 PM
As of right now here is how the method Stands:

Bet Selection: 2 plus capping

Recovery Bet Selection: Bet every time before the last and use the exclusion rule along with Natural 9's other tweak idea

Progression: not sure if the delayed progression is going to cut it. I will look into the two progressions that Roules posted about and some slight negative progressions. any ideas??

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Natural9

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 06:31:56 PM
I think the divisor plan would work well but you have to be prepared to sometimes  grind it out may take alot of bets to recover but always at the end you haver a one unit profit  I not sure I like your idea of getting back to even so to speak you want something for you bets specially after the recovery mode

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
July 05, 2009, 11:11:01 PM
Yes I don't know if I like the idea of going back to even anymore either. So maybe going for at least +1 unit profit would work better.

Here is my problem with the divisor:

With baccarat I do not think you are allowed to bet $1.00 chips on top of the minimum bet. I could be wrong....I have never done this and I have never seen anybody do this. So sometimes you could have a bet that must be $27 so if you cannot bet 27 then you need to round up to 30. Then if you have a bet that is 33 then you need to round up to 35 but I don't know if you can place a $5.00 bet ontop of your bet, again I have never done this, so this means you would round up to 40. I could be very wrong here and if so then please correct me because this is one of the only things that has stopped me from using the divisor.

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John1234

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2+capping
September 08, 2009, 01:46:43 AM
I have started to test the 2+capping method again. I am using a negative progression and a very simple recovery bet selection. I have also altered the rules and I will explain later if everything continues to go well.

Ten shoes have been tested so far Win goal Between 8-9 units.

Shoe 1: 8 units
Shoe 2: 8 units
shoe 3: 8 units
shoe 4: 9 units
Shoe 5: 8 units
shoe 6: 8 units
Shoe 7: 9 units
Shoe 8: 8 units
Shoe 9: 8 units
Shoe 10: 8 units

Total units after 10 shoes= 82 units
Largest drawdown= 6 units ( happened once)

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
September 09, 2009, 01:36:01 AM
I tested an altered version of this on roulette today for 609 spins and it came up with a 35 unit profit. I have no idea if that is good or not because 609 spins is a lot of spins.

 I'll post the altered version of this system soon. I have start studying for so maybe sometime after friday.

I made a baccarat version of 2+capping and a roulette version. The baccarat version uses a more aggressive progression. The roulette version uses a slower drawn out progression because of the 0's and the fact that a don't have to deal with the time constraints of a shoe.

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John1234

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Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
September 09, 2009, 10:49:04 PM
I don't have much time so this is going to be nice and short. Here is how I altered to 2+capping system for baccarat.

1.) Play until the normal trigger arrives. 2 of the same outcome (the 2+side) followed by the opposite outcome (the capped side) then you bet for the 2+ side to return again.

Example:

P
P 2+ of P
B (B) capped P so bet for P to return
P Win

Example 2:

B
B
B
B 2 + of B
P Capped by P now bet for B
B Win

2.) When you win the capping bet stop and wait for a new trigger

3.) if you lose the capping bet you will be betting streaks with exclusion rule

Exclusion Rule: When betting streaks, if you come across the (2+capping trigger) then you make the 2+capping bet.

-You only bet the recovery phase until you are 1 unit ahead. When you are one unit ahead you stop and wait for the next two plus capping bet.


Example of recovery:

B
B
P
P Lose Now bet streaks
P Win

Second Example:

B
B
B
B
P
P Lose, bet streaks of P
B Lose (exclusion rule)
P Win now streaks
P Win


Example 3:

P
P
P
B
B Lose bet streaks
P Exclusion rule
P Lose, bet streaks


Progression (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ...) As  you can see you add 1 unit as you go up the ladder. On a win you start to work your way down the ladder, adjusting based on how much you need to bet to make the 1 unit profit to get out of the recovery mode.

So if I lose bet 1, I make a 2 unit Bet, If I win the 2 unit bet then I'm ahead 1 unit therefore out of recovery.

If I lose the 2 unit bet then i go to 3 units. If I win the 3 unit bet then I am at even. So instead of going down to the 2 unit bet I jump down to the 1 unit bet. And If I win that bet then I am 1 unit ahead and I am out of recovery. If I lose that bet then I am going to bet 2 units and so on.


Alternative Progression:

Here is a slower progression that I used for roulette it will probably work just as well for baccarat.

It is a 5 step progression

11111 22222 33333 44444 55555 66666...

you only go up the ladder if you lose 3 out of 5 bets.

And the same recovery rules such as betting on streaks and exclusion rule still exists.