True about RNG's

[bombus]

lol, LIVE WHEELS ARE FIXED TOO,

You should give up roulette mate.

Live wheels too!... We should all give up now.

[Marven]

Well, same as Spike here. Worst results I've ever had, I had on online casino RNG's.

I don't care if they're rigged or not, I'm sticking to real wheels anyway.

I believe RNG's are fair, but online casino RNG's *MIGHT* not be used fairly. So I won't consider them until irrefutable proof of these casino's fairness is presented, which is unlikely to ever happen.

[m0Fo]

Thanks for your answer Bliss, I am looking for new casinos that worth my time, because of this debating about RNGs I became paranoid too. .

No.  6 you are the one telling everyone that systems do not work.  Fair enough.  In that case how can you say that people losing on rng are people who's systems do not work? Sory to say this to you but you must be a total idiot (or a online casino rep) if you for one instance believe that rng is fair.  I believe what Mike is saying.  What he forgot to tell you is that rng is programmed to pick up progressions.  Why do you think casino's can have these min/max 10c min per number and $400 max per number.  No BM casino will give you that spread. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . wonder why? If you tell me that you are beating rng consistently and clearly are profitting . . . . . . .  then you are just talking to the birds. 

I personally have won on rng.  Almost everytime.  Then up to a point then it get's impossible.  Funny.  (yes the reason might be what Mike was referring to) Funny thing is that if I had 10k and started of on 10c bets I promise you I will lose on a progression and after that the very next spin my number will come in lol. . . . . . get real.

6, let's face it mate you like to be in the middle of the spotlight.  Whatever the topic is. . . . you will be on the opposite side.

name them Jakkalsdraai, please, I stated the reason above =)

[TwoCatSam]

I would have sworn all RNGs were fixed until I started to play Bet Voyager.  Now, I'm not so sure.  I've seen some huge payouts by them on their RNG--one guy claims a 22,000 Euro win.  Give or take a thou....

Sam

[Number Six]

This debate is all part of the gambler's bent psychology. RNGs differ massively from a real wheel, mainly because a human is part of the process of generating the outcome in a real environment. When the processes and the manner in which they are executed are so different, how can people ever expect them to produce the same "exploitable" characteristics? They are very different, they are hardly comparable. If anyone on this forum knew anything about stochastic processes and the science involved they would know that. If you're gonna play an RNG you have to study it and tailor the method around it like you would [should] with a real wheel. An RNG will bulldoze any mechanical system and any method designed for a real wheel. Deal with it and stop crying about "cheaters".

[Proofreaders2000]

Land Based casinos are at a real disadvantage compared to online (except Dublinbet) because of table limits.  If you have multiple partners and a large enough bankroll you can win with a martingale.  Online, you don't have that advantage and on RNG, you don't have the physics to employ advantage play.

[rjeaton1]

one guy claims a 22,000 Euro win.  Give or take a thou....
Sam

It would probably have to be the take and not the give.  I'm pretty sure the max payout at betvoyager for the total of all combined winning bets is 20k on a single spin...if memory serves that is.

[Jakkalsdraai]

Thanks for your answer Bliss, I am looking for new casinos that worth my time, because of this debating about RNGs I became paranoid too. .

name them Jakkalsdraai, please, I stated the reason above =)

If I understand correctly u are asking which Online casinos? Try African Palace and Indigo. Both have 10c min and 400 max.

To the guys that believe you are actually beating RNG......I would love to see real proof. I think of RNG this way. Let's say I am the RNG. I now ask you what number am I thinking of? You say 2. I say no 1....... Does not matter what number you say....you will be wrong.

This is not the first guy that is a software engineer that makes such claims. If I remember correctly didn't Alarian also claim to have worked for Playtech before. As I remember it he made similar claims. So who do we believe? Guys that are claiming that RNG is beatable, yet no proof has been supplied, or guys that claim they are software engineers and what can they really get out of this making such claims? I think I would stick with the latter.

Ask guys like Kimo Li, Spike, Herb, Ronjo, Lanky, Victor, Holyman, Lohnro and the list goes on and on.....ask them what they think of RNG.....I rest my case.

You all know about the challenge between Ray and Herb using RNG spins. And Ray was way up. I strongly supported ray and I pulled Herb's leg numerous times about that challenge. I tell you guys this though. Ray knows roulette. And he beat those numbers because they were numbers on paper and thus could not be altered. I bet if that same session was online against RNG, things would of been different. The software would of countered him.

Cheers
Jakk

[Spike]

To the guys that believe you are actually beating RNG......I would love to see real proof.>>>

I was in a new casino tonight and they have the Bally roulette machines, like a slot machine, only it plays roulette. I spoke to a Bally rep last year and he said they use the gold standard of RNG's in these machines and I can't beat the damn things. The go back and forth like a tennis match and I have maybe a 55% hit rate. Get more zeros than normal and I'm screwed. Its maddening to play them, they are nothing like a real wheel. The best way to describe it is, real random has gentle hills and valleys,; this RNG has steep hills and valleys that plunge staight down. To hell with that.

[bliss]

To the guys that believe you are actually beating RNG......I would love to see real proof.

Nobody's ever shown real proof of beating a real wheel either. What would "real" proof mean to you? It's ironic that probably the best proof we've seen on this forum is Ray's challenge (I watched it too), which was using RNG spins, but then you say he could only win because the numbers weren't altered.  If a casino is rigged, that has nothing to do with the RNG. To fix the game all you have to do is wait until a bet has been placed and then "spin" the ball into a number or section that hasn't been bet. As I mentioned in my earlier post, if this were a systemic practice the stats wouldn't tally, and it wouldn't take long before it was discovered. Of course there are rogue casinos around - the wizard of odds has documented on his site a case of possible cheating where the odds of particular draw in a blackjack game were way beyond the expectations.

guys that claim they are software engineers and what can they really get out of this making such claims?

I don't know. Maybe they have seen some dodgy stuff going on, but they can't possibly substantiate the claim that all (or nearly all) online casinos are fixed. People make all kinds of claims on the internet, you suggested that Number Six could be an "agent" for online casinos - well maybe this guy is an agent for land-based casinos? That may sound silly, but it's about as likely as the truth of your suggestion regarding Number Six. My point is, there's a tendency to ignore or minimise the evidence that conflicts with what you've chosen to believe. There are many reasons why it's not likely that the software is rigged at most (if not all) online casinos, but there is only one reason to think that it is the case - that reason being that you can't see how the spins are generated so you won't know you're being ripped off. In other words, they think they can get away with it, so they do it.  Hardly a viable business model is it? the biggest issue online casinos face is one of trust - do you really think that companies like Ladbrokes, Betfair etc are going to cheat customers and put their reputation in jeopardy? don't forget they already have the advantage and have far less running costs than a B&M casino - they aren't going to go broke or get into financial difficulties by playing absolutely fair, on the contrary. And yet we're supposed to believe that they will risk throwing it all away by cheating punters out of a few more units. Most of the bigger, reputable casinos (like 32red) make freely available all their RNG spins and payout data, Betvoyager even goes a step further with their "randomness control".  So they can't really "get away with it", even if they chose to.

Ask guys like Kimo Li, Spike, Herb, Ronjo, Lanky, Victor, Holyman, Lohnro and the list goes on and on.....ask them what they think of RNG.....I rest my case.

It doesn't really count as reason for believing anything. Much as a I respect the opinions of some of these people, every case should be taken on its own merits. I'm pretty sure most of those you mention haven't given any substantive evidence as to why they don't play online, only that they don't trust them.

I agree that RNGs number sequences have a different "feel" to them than real wheel sequences, but you can get to know their characteristics and exploit them, just as you can on a real wheel.

[bliss]

t0p_man,

Well, what can I say?  better for you if you avoid online casinos. You certainly won't win if you think it's impossible.

[Number Six]

The best way to describe it is, real random has gentle hills and valleys,; this RNG has steep hills and valleys that plunge staight down. To hell with that.

At least someone understands there is a difference. If you constantly compare an RNG to a real wheel, then no wonder you all think they are rigged. There is barely any hope for anyone. And who says the writer of that article was a software engineer? He's more likely to be a cyber-bs-er. If I said I could manipulate time you'd probably believe me.

[Jakkalsdraai]

Well I have spoken to Ray who will tell you that RNG in B&M casinos are ok to play. He will tell you as well that online RNG is a different kettle of fish.

So 6, how much are you up against RNG?

Cheers
Jakk

[Phishalot]

I do not believe that the RNG casino's are cheating, but I do now that I lose on them. As if I play live I can usually walk away a winner. I think some of the problems with RGN is that you can play 3 times as many spins in an hour.

Spike: I have also talked to a Bally tech, I asked him if the chances for even number bets where the same as a live wheel or like a slot machine where the odds can be changed. His answer was very interesting; he said that it was programmed to simulate live wheels exactly, except it is not suppose to go past 12 in a row on one side. I tried to find out if this info was correct, so I went and played the .25 machines in Harrahs, played for 3 days /12 hours on one machine to see if I could make it go over. I made it to 12 seven times. It never went to 13.

Phishalot

[Spike]

except it is not suppose to go past 12 in a row on one side.>>>

Somebody was pulling your leg. The RNG in a gambling machine cannot be programmed in any way except to put out random numbers. If they even manufacture it so it can be tampered with in any way, they would be fined out of business. I've seen many times where the Bally roulette went well over 12, who ever told you that was having a joke on you.

[Spike]

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