True about RNG's

[Jakkalsdraai]

  If that was the truth, then cluster analysis or even the way Spike plays would have no substance to it.    If that was the truth the very last number that was spun does not matter either right? So how would you do educated guessing with absolutely no past results. I mean Spike says he looks at a wheel and knows if it is playable. That you could only do if there was some kind of history. Otherwise you would have to walk blind folded to the wheel and then make your guess (educated). Problem is how do you make an educated guess if you have nothing to base it on. 

Except for Spike's example above I know of other members (allbeit 1 or 2) that also use "time" to play. In Spike's example though (and please I'm not talking on his behalf) he seems to play every bet on the EC's and he basically looks at the data flow of spins basically reading what is happening. How that is done exactly I'm afraid I have not a clue either! I guess we would have to go and practice watching EC results until we see something or until we realize that the naysayers are correct.........I believe Spike's claims though.

I play a very interesting method myself. I stare at the carpet until a number starts forming like in a hazy type of spooky shape......Then I bet that.     .................. NOT! 

[curious]

If that was the truth, then cluster analysis or even the way Spike plays would have no substance to it.    If that was the truth the very last number that was spun does not matter either right? So how would you do educated guessing with absolutely no past results. I mean Spike says he looks at a wheel and knows if it is playable.

Spike says a lot of stupid shit.   And if you read selections from his posts on several of the forums that he posts on you see after a while that he constantly contradicts himself.  So, I don't believe anything that Spike says.

That you could only do if there was some kind of history. Otherwise you would have to walk blind folded to the wheel and then make your guess (educated). Problem is how do you make an educated guess if you have nothing to base it on. 

That is the whole point.  You cannot make an educated guess on a random game.  The previous results only tell you what happened before, they cannot tell you what will happen next.

Except for Spike's example above I know of other members (allbeit 1 or 2) that also use "time" to play. In Spike's example though (and please I'm not talking on his behalf) he seems to play every bet on the EC's and he basically looks at the data flow of spins basically reading what is happening. How that is done exactly I'm afraid I have not a clue either! I guess we would have to go and practice watching EC results until we see something or until we realize that the naysayers are correct.........I believe Spike's claims though.

I play a very interesting method myself. I stare at the carpet until a number starts forming like in a hazy type of spooky shape......Then I bet that.     .................. NOT! 

Well, Spike SAYS that he plays this way in that post, but you will find other posts where he SAYS he plays a totally different way.  I think that Spike is a teenager and doesn't play with real money.  I base this opinion on having read so many contradictory posts from him on Gamblers Glen, VLS and other places.  So, I don't believe any thing Spike says.

I just always bet my wife's measurements:  36-25-35

[m0Fo]

excuse me guys, but what does this have to do with RNG's? . . .

[TwoCatSam]

Guys

It's been a while since I've read BEAT THE DEALER, but if memory serves me right, Thorpe was counting down a single deck, not a six-deck shoe.  At the time of his raid, the six-deck shoe had not been invented--if memory serves me right.  So we may logically say that the shoe was implemented to thwart Thorpe and others of his ilk.  I think that's a fair statement, don't you?

So.......humans being creatures who learn vicarious lessons........along comes Joe and finds a way to beat the wheel.  He remembers Thorpe and the shoe and knows darn well if he publishes, the casino will take action to nullify his method.  So he keeps quiet.

I agree with Spike when he says people like to beat their chest and yell to the world what they have done.  It would be hard not to write the book that tells the secret even Einstein claimed did not exist.  It would be hard not to top ol' Albert!  I feel Spike is fighting this same urge; the urge to tell all.  So he tells one story here and another there.  Never the true story, just stories.  Why?  Hell, he'll burst at the seams if he doesn't say something!  He's like Superman when he was a boy on the farm.  Pa Kent remarked how it just killed him that he could do all these wonderful things and he couldn't tell anyone.  Well, that's Spike! 

Sam

[Number Six]

So 6, how much are you up against RNG?

Cheers
Jakk

I only play one RNG, sometimes I win sometimes I lose. I use it mainly for data analysis, not for serious playing. I'm not sticking up for online casinos. Some of them are run by the Russian mafia, do you think they are kosher? Course they're not, they cheat. However, I just don't see a casino owned by a huge UK bookie cheating. It doesn't make good business sense. If they got caught they'd lose it all. How many letters do you think trading standards or whatever get from enraged losers saying "I've been cheated by an online casino"? Don't get me wrong, I DO remain open to the idea that they ALL cheat, especially Playtech, although I myself have never felt cheated because I don't use some douchie "follow the last decision" betting system, but until someone comes up with some credible proof we can all see I wish everyone would just shut the fk up about it. It's boring.

[Spike]

You cannot make an educated guess on a random game.>>>

Wanna bet?

[Jakkalsdraai]

Well No. 6, Nobody would of believed that Bill Clinton would have an affair, after all he had even more to loose......yet he did. So as far as greed and casinos go, if you are almost sure no one can pick you up.....why not cheat?

Cheers
Jakk

[Jakkalsdraai]

  To add to that......it's usually the ones you suspect least that are the culprits!

It's like when someone told me the other day: "Jeez that guy looks just like a murderer.....I bet you he has offed someone....." To which I asked him: " Well what does a murderer looks like?"   

Cheers
Jakk

[Spike]

if you are almost sure no one can pick you up.....why not cheat?>>

Because cheaters always get over confident and they always get busted.

[Jakkalsdraai]

  True.......well we only know of the ones that get busted right?

Anyhow. In South Africa. Two household names in food, Tiger Brands and Pioneer Foods both got busted for price fixing. Tiger Brands I think were fined like over a 100 mil in fines while Pioneer Foods were still waiting to hear their fate.

Tiger Brands had price fixing on bread. Guess what......after the fine was announced, bread prices went up again....go figure.

So what I am saying is that although alot of people here believe in the honesty of people and businesses........if house hold names like those (Mega big companies) do it, why in hell would casinos not do it.  

I'm afraid alot of us look and stare blanc into a polished exteriors with the best in PR and marketing and we very seldom get to see what goes beyond those shells and which decisions are being made behind the scenes. Tobacco companies are another prime example. So again, why would any casino and especially online casinos be any different. Believe me it does not have to be Russian Mafia to be crooked lolol.

Yeah Spike, it is true what you say that they will get caught and that this is the reason why they should not do it. Unfortunately money(and alot of it) as well as the best defense teams in the business, the most polished spin teams etc. usually get these guys off very easily. No questions asked.

Cheers
Jakk

[Number Six]

OK. Describe to me the process of how an online casino would cheat and manage to evade detection by the auditors. If possible back up the theory with facts from open sources.

[Jakkalsdraai]

  Unfortunately I have no such proof. All I'm trying to show you and whoever is the fact that it is not impossible to be a cheat. Auditors could easily be in their pocket as 80% of this World runs on bribes. It's not what you know....but who you know.

Cheers
Jakk

[bliss]

Auditors could easily be in their pocket as 80% of this World runs on bribes.

LOL  

It's really pointless trying to convince someone whose mind is made up. No amount of evidence is satisfactory and what there is can be countered by pulling rabbits out of hats as in the above. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean to say someone isn't out to get you!

If you think about the actual logistics of cheating the scenario becomes more and more absurd. I'm talking about those reputable online casinos now who have auditors and make their spins available.  If you're going to cheat, you have to take into account that there are going to be multiple players, each of whom are (likely) going to be playing different systems and methods, so there would have to be code which would calculate the results of all players bets at any time, and work out which would be the optimum number (or section) to throw up next in order to get the most profit (ie; to make the biggest player(s) lose), and get the number out in time before the player clicks the spin button. That in itself isn't impossible, but it's pretty unlikely that there would be such a clear "winner" for the casino, unless there was some whale staking far more than anyone else.  Then you would also need to make sure that this number or section didn't throw the stats out of expectation, in order to keep the auditor's happy, not to mention any punters who were keeping a record of the spins.

But then, anything's possible when you believe.  

[Number Six]

It's sort of similar to Wendel's ludicrous statement that dealers can hit any number they choose at any given time in order to nail the biggest stakes. Not only is that outrageous, and physically impossible, but the exercise itself is pointless. Yeah, you nail the biggest stake on the table, which is 5000 on whatever plein, but on the rest of the table is wagered a lot of other smaller monies. The casino still has to pay out to the winners, which makes Wendel's claim holier than sieve. Economically it would give no further advantage to the house. On each spin sometimes the casino will come out ahead, occasionally it will pay out more that it gains. The question of RNGs is, if they cheat, how do they do it? Do they manipulate outcomes by recognising your system, or do they calculate on the fly where your bets are and spit out an uncovered number? Or do they doctor their accounts and try to dupe the auditors into thinking they are paying out more than they actually are? By law the casino has to be seen to payout an acceptable region of the house egde, meaning they pay back around 97.3% of all monies wagered. That is programmed into the software. So far there isn't even a credible THEORY about cheating. Do as Bliss says, collect some RNG numbers and test them for acceptable levels of randomness. You will never find anything out of the ordinary.

[Jakkalsdraai]

  That is just my opinion Bliss. Use it don't use it.

I'm not saying every casino on the internet is cheating either. I am saying that it is very possible that there are some that you might not suspect that may very well be crooked.

Why is it so incredibly impossible for a casino to cheat? How in any case does a Auditor determine if a RNG is crooked or not?

Punters keeping record of numbers.....and? What does that mean? We know random can give any sequence of numbers. How in heaven's name will you know if the rng changes accoring to your bets placed? Simple....the answer is you cannot. And there is no way you can proove it either way except if you created the damn thing.

Do yourself a favour. Play online RNG roulette. But bet virtually. Only play red and black with some kind of fixed game plan. Now, do the same but bet with real money and a progression........Let's see what happens then. What you saying is there is no difference.

Anyhow I have said what I believe. If you want to play RNG, no skin off my nose. Please go ahead. I'm not going to stop you lol.  

BTW. Which online casino do you work for Bliss......or which of them pay you to advocate their honesty?  
Looks like that English dude over yonder was right about them Online casinos after all lolol


Cheers mate
Jakk

[Jakkalsdraai]

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