Preliminary Notes On Beating the RNG Software

[ausguy]

RNG = Waste of your time & money, looking for patterns/testing/playing.  Do some worthwhile reSEARCH on it right here up top on this forum. Start off by typing in CHEATING RNG SOFTWARE.

Also check any gaming regulators site & see why slots/poker machines, RNG roulette, RNG cards. Airball/autowheel roulette are all classified as EGMs = Electronic Gaming Machines. Not true random spun games like live dealer roulette or craps. Once they comply with the payout % then it's open season on any players BR. The most obvious way is on the slots where they trickle feed most of the wins (small fish) so human nature being what it is, the player keeps on playing going for the BIG FISH. All too often that big one JUST gets away.

I read some time ago about the audits for RNG. For statistical accuracy they examine the payout % over the longer term rather than the shorter term. This gives any peaks (casino wins) & dips (casino loses) a chance to mathematically even out. The casino software has an inbuilt audit component, this vitually guarantees consistant compliance.

I last played them in 2010 (now sworn off for life). I remember playing on Vegas Star RNG at my local casino losing $600. About 6 other players combined nearby were down about $3,500.  A player came up & started quite large inside bets and won $3 grand within a few minutes. He cashed in & left (good move by him). Us 7 players continued on betting, none of us won anything, we all did our "arses" aka BRs.

I'm not certain how they do it with RNG ? Probably something similar to slots where the RNG program slowly milks your BR with a few wins thrown in along the way. Something like 2 paces forward & 3 back. RNG is successful, that's why casinos are squeezing as many of them in as possible & reducing live dealer roulette. The other profit boost for casinos is that EGMs don't need a paid dealers & pit bosses.

[schoenpoetser]

The software of the inter-netcasinos are simply to manipulate. The software keeps a record of your manner of playing. They can easily determine bots or systems. The result of a new turn depends on  your bettings.This manipulates can be avoided by playing different strategies. If the software is manipulated on your profit  then it is impossible to make profit.
There is no difference between the manipulated  RNG  for real or fun money. Martingale sequences are very often broken by the zero
From the beginning I do not thrust the internet software.

[ausguy]

Schoen - Yes you are right not to trust RNG. If the game on behalf of the casino/club/venue is down on profit at any point in time then the game program just makes more players lose so that a moving average profit % margin is maintained. Legal Cheating = RNG = EGMs = Electronic Gaming Machines.

It's all documented on any Gaming Regulators Site. I've looked & seen it. Regs are pretty much international. ON line RNG must also comply with player % returns as they all get independently audited.

At my local club here in Sydney OZ they have a big big nest of RNG poker/slot/fruit machines. Our state has 10 % of the worlds poker/slot machines in all clubs & most pubs + 1 Casino (1,000 +). That's over 100,000 machines for a population of abt. 5 million & less than 1/1,000 % of the worlds population. Problem Gambling is large with many players & their families suffering badly. The taxes are a big earner for the Government. Money talks & BS walks.

They also have a mini theatre of Vegas Star HD video RNG roulette & Vegas Star RNG Blackjack.

Talking to a friendly duty manager late one quiet night at the club he said they can adjust the % return on all RNG equipment in the club  over a wide range of values. He then said they are governed to have high preset % returns to the players. He went on to say that they always comply with the % payouts as the internal pgm guarantees it.

He then said that over time they usually end up with most players money anyway. Most clubs/pubs/venues are luxurious & expanding, all thanks to RNG.   

[carsch]

My exact feelings, Ausguy.

So, now, how can we beat these machines? Can we?

[ausguy]

carsch - Do you have slot/poker machines close by to your area where you can play them ? Do you or would you play them ? Do you think over the longer term I.E. 6 to 12 months playing them a few times a week that you would be in profit ? Do you know any/many people that are in profit aside from a rare very lucky big jackpot winner ?

I used pokies/slots here because they're the easiest to understand.  However they are classified ( by the gaming authorities everywhere) as EGMs = Electronic gaming machines. So too is RNG roulette as found in casinos as video game terminals mini theatres such as Vegas Star & also ALL on line RNG roulette. Other EGMs whether on line or casino include blackjack, baccarat, Texas poker, airball/slingshot. All the modern day EGMs/RNGs have their operational earnings % origins off pokie/slot programs.

Leaving aside all their different game programs, they have 2 MAIN things in common that B & M and on line casinos/venues love. 1. They have built in preprogrammed profit %s. & 2. They don't need dealers & pit bosses so the save big on that.

The guaranteed profit % is the thing to understand. If they had true random results then the payouts could be sometimes very high ? In turn they may not get back into profit for many days ? The casino bean counters want steady daily profits, not fluctuating returns.

The only way they can get these steady returns is to MANIPULTE the results. This is supplied with all the games they buy with an inbuilt program. They are legally allowed to manipulate/CHEAT as long as the players HAVE IN TOTAL been paid the official % returns. That's what EGMs are all about.

Audits are regularly carried out but on a gaming regulators site they said that long term averages are used (statistically better) to even out any short term fluctuations.

They don't mention anything about players winning & then suddenly hit the wall to crash & burn along with their BR. (To them that would be a short term fluctuation).

So to answer your "can we beat these machines" question. It's a big NO  & it's for that very reason I never play those rip off games. It's live dealer or nothing for me.

[nottophammer]

My exact feelings, Ausguy.

So, now, how can we beat these machines? Can we?

carsch where do you play your rng.
I ask as i dont look to/too far on here for the answer. Like it Aus, LOL

[TicTacToe]

nottophammer

My lunch break is from one TO TWO, TOO !

Like it

TTT

[ausguy]

hammer - Looks . A school teacher might even put one of those gold star stickers on your forehead to reward your effort & improvement.?

[carsch]

Sure Ausguy..... they're probably nothing more than just EGM's and have no RNG (i'm inclined to believe this). But THEN, and maybe, Nullified is up to something. Some people believe that after a certain amount of wins, they should cash out and then come back to the machine (what do they know that i don't? or do they know something at all?) Or maybe there is a time to play these machines, and a time to not play them? Well, i've seen people win crazy money at these roullete machines and just keep on winning. Then other times, it's like no one is winning. Lol! Well, and maybe Nullified has some ideas as he created this thread....the reason why i asked if these can be beatten. 

[ausguy]

carsch - As with any bet game live dealer or RNG you never know the complete picture as far as making long term profits goes ? Unless you personally know the player & therefore have "inside" information.

I know a guy who was addicted to slot/poker machine play. He worked hard & earnt good money. He got paid wednesdays & was usually broke by Friday. In 9 months he'd lost around $25,000. His wife left him, his life was messy.

One night at the local pub (Metro Sydney OZ land & most pubs have these "1 arm bandits" = a slang term from way back when they had pull handles) he won a large jackpot, $3,200. On the back of that win, to his credit, he went radical, quit his job, gave up playing the "pokies", quit his rental house & reunited with his wife interstate. He made a complete break & has made no contact with friends here in Sydney for over 1 year.

I was at the pub the night he won the $3.2k (social drinking only, nil pokie playing). Bells were ringing, lights flashing, other players clapping, cheering & back slapping him.

After all the excitement the bottom line is that this guy is still down close to - $21.8k.

Some games you can see other people winning & losing. Other games like on line RNG, it's you VS the machine. There could be hundreds of other players playing that same game but all are in electronic isolation.

As you don't seem convinced no matter what is said carsch. All I can suggest is that you allocate yourself an amount of a number of BR's, say 5+, maybe 500 + (100 x 5)subject to your progression and use some play method of your choice. Get yourself a number of different accounts from different casinos or if playing autowheel (still a type of RNG) go hit & run then return at varied times and/or play different machines, minutes/hours/days later.

Long term you will either be in profit or go bust (also break even is a remote possibility) ?  It matters not what other players experience, only your results count.
At least you'll find out 100% & not worry about it any more.

[gavind]

It's kind of difficult when we talk about long term profit. Since they always change the mechanics.

[ausguy]

gavind - Can you expand on what you mean...."Since they always change the mechanics" ? Also why is it difficult to talk about long term profit ?

You are either winning & ahead, breaking even & going no where or losing & sinking like a boat with a hole in it.

[Antibet]

I play on sky vegas on 1p roulette usually £5 a week, playing all sorts of sytems and lose most of the time, i lose £250 a year. Their maximum stake on an even chance is £500. If I go on the site and wager £500 on say black there are three outcomes, black, red or zero. If the outcome of the spin was anything else but random this would be cheating. I don't care how much has been won or lost on previous games at the casino the outcome is honest. Take any of your spin results from RGN and compare them with smartlive casino real wheel, smartlive are not worried about someone betting £500 on an even choice because the house edge is there, i have seen number 29 come out 4 spins in a row on smartlive and also number 4 did too. Although real wheel roulette can be beaten (Steve?) a good modern wheel and rgn give similar results. If you look for patterns, that's fine. Play the game and enjoy, win? great!. lose, so be it!

[ausguy]

antibet - your bottom line vindicates what I'm saying about RNG = you lose most of the time playing all sorts of systems. Make it as units & 250GBP/1p =250,000 units per year.

Transpose that to live Smart Live dealer play & the inside minimum @ 1GBP (100p) & the losses climb to 250,000 GBP PA or just over 4,800pw. For us mere mortals way out of our league.

As to your randomness part on RNG they are allowed to & do CHEAT. That's the LEGAL nature of the EGM (electronic gaming machine). Compliance only requires an average correct payout % spread out over all players over a statistically longer time frame. With an accounting /audit program in place it can never fail to deliver for the casino & still comply with payout rules. How long I don't know as gaming regulator sites don't specify ?

Lets say a tally is made every 24 hours? A hell of a lot of players would have lost money VS a minority having won. This is little different the live wheels. I don't really know why they need to have RNG cheat ? The only conclusion I can see is that casinos want guaranteed regular profits. Keep in mind that slots/poker machines are the principal casino money spinners so other RNG games have been made to run similar to them, earnings wise.

As to comparing RNG results with live dealer wheels ? If some RNG spins were 10B,6B,1R,10B,6B instead of 6B,10B,1R,10B,6B you would never know. Lets say on the 1st set you lost & on the 1st 2 spins of the second lot you would have won. Unseen & unknown to the player is that the game program has intervened & switched the numbers to make you lose so that the casino wins. On any live dealer spun wheel what you see spun is what you get = true random. As to back to back winners & unusual outcomes they are noticeably more prevalent on RNG then on live dealer wheels. The randomness can be there but it's the switching or insertion of some numbers that changes the game further negative for the player.

The other rort is that many players are led to believe that RNG games are fair as in your part about random & believing the game doesn't cheat ?

Comparing 2 different RNG wheels or 1 RNG VS 1 live dealer wheel isn't going to reveal too much of value ? The big carrot with RNG roulette such as Sky Vegas is the  very low minimums. 1p is 100 times less than 1GBP (inside) & x 1,000 (outside) on the Smart Live dealer wheel.

A more valid comparison Antibet would be to play your same methods/systems long term on the live wheel. The big barrier may be the required BR @ x 100 your present 1p level BR ? Alternatively it is possible with SL to play it in fun mode as all plays are via the same money bet wheel. It just depends on how much time you have. The other option is to grab the 185 recent spins daily & test those.     

[Antibet]

EGM like slots have percentage payouts say 78%, they always keep 22% of the money put in. RGN roulette on FOBT (fixed odds betting terminals) use the nature of the unfair payout system e.g 35-1 in 37 numbers which will always return a profit, they are random and if i win my £500 someone else is of course losing theirs.

[Antibet]

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